3 ms·

What do you think the UK could do to make the situation better aside from increasing pay? Or is that the only issue?

colesantiago 2y ago
UK companies do not respect software engineers or reward them properly (not even stock), even interns in other places get paid 5x more than a senior engineer in the UK. There is a also a huge cost of living issue in the UK which makes it dead on arrival for any software engineering job in the UK. I could say there should be more VC funding in the UK for startups but I don't think this would help either due to the above issues especially pay, as I don't see this at all. So there is nothing the UK can do to make the situation better other than talented engineers should either go into finance / hedge funds, leetcode hard and compete for FAANG jobs only or move to the US and don't look back.
- jnwatson 2y ago
  Simply put, UK needs more companies run by software folks. Only software folks respect other software folks enough to pay them well.
  - colesantiago 2y ago
    Precisely and this requires funding (as per my other point) but since the UK has a very very very risk averse culture to starting companies I do not see this changing unfortunately.
- mmarq 2y ago
  > UK companies do not respect software engineers or reward them properly (not even stock), even interns in other places get paid 5x more than a senior engineer in the UK. In monetary terms this is not true. A good software engineer can make 150-200K in the UK without going into finance or FAANG. In real terms you are better off making 50-80K in Germany, Spain, France, Poland, Italy, etc…, especially if you have children and don’t own property.
  - philipwhiuk 2y ago
    Name a company paying 150-200K that’s not finance or FAANG?
    - mmarq 2y ago
      According to levels.fyi: Personio, Deliveroo, Samsara, Atlassian, monday.com (and others, including my employer) I know many consultants that make 150K+ (which is 600£ per day)
      - m_rpn 2y ago
        Good for you, i work in finance in london and don't quite make that much, none of my friends in other places like JP, Goldman Sachs, Amazon, Instagram ecc does make 200k pounds/year base, maybe in tc yes. Skill issue probably. I would say 90-120k pounds/year base for a mid-senior engineer in FAANG/Finance is what most of us is being offered right now in London, based on my recent experience. What i feel is that many of us are being heavily undercut right now, me included, while consultancy keeps it's pace and everywhere outside London it's a bloodbath.
        mmarq 2y ago
        RSUs and bonuses are part of compensation.
      - colesantiago 2y ago
        Apart for consultants which is what I recommend people get into for a high paying job, even looking at levels.fyi, the average pay is actually lower in the UK. Take Samsara, on average basis an entry level engineer in the US pays higher than a semi-senior SWE (SWE II) in the UK, taking into account the base as well for a senior also looks dismal for UK engineers. Even when these companies are public, UK salaries just don't seem to be competitive or appealing and this all just proves my point. Just go to the US, FAANG, finance or just be a consultant.
        2y ago
whitehexagon 2y ago
IR35 was enough for me to leave the UK and never look back. Doesn't matter how much they pay if you have tax/legal uncertainty.
- dzonga 2y ago
  where did you go to if you don't mind ?

UK companies do not respect software engineers or reward them properly (not even stock), even interns in other places get paid 5x more than a senior engineer in the UK. There is a also a huge cost of living issue in the UK which makes it dead on arrival for any software engineering job in the UK. I could say there should be more VC funding in the UK for startups but I don't think this would help either due to the above issues especially pay, as I don't see this at all. So there is nothing the UK can do to make the situation better other than talented engineers should either go into finance / hedge funds, leetcode hard and compete for FAANG jobs only or move to the US and don't look back.

jnwatson 2y ago
Simply put, UK needs more companies run by software folks. Only software folks respect other software folks enough to pay them well.
- colesantiago 2y ago
  Precisely and this requires funding (as per my other point) but since the UK has a very very very risk averse culture to starting companies I do not see this changing unfortunately.
mmarq 2y ago
> UK companies do not respect software engineers or reward them properly (not even stock), even interns in other places get paid 5x more than a senior engineer in the UK. In monetary terms this is not true. A good software engineer can make 150-200K in the UK without going into finance or FAANG. In real terms you are better off making 50-80K in Germany, Spain, France, Poland, Italy, etc…, especially if you have children and don’t own property.
- philipwhiuk 2y ago
  Name a company paying 150-200K that’s not finance or FAANG?
  - mmarq 2y ago
    According to levels.fyi: Personio, Deliveroo, Samsara, Atlassian, monday.com (and others, including my employer) I know many consultants that make 150K+ (which is 600£ per day)
    - m_rpn 2y ago
      Good for you, i work in finance in london and don't quite make that much, none of my friends in other places like JP, Goldman Sachs, Amazon, Instagram ecc does make 200k pounds/year base, maybe in tc yes. Skill issue probably. I would say 90-120k pounds/year base for a mid-senior engineer in FAANG/Finance is what most of us is being offered right now in London, based on my recent experience. What i feel is that many of us are being heavily undercut right now, me included, while consultancy keeps it's pace and everywhere outside London it's a bloodbath.
      - mmarq 2y ago
        RSUs and bonuses are part of compensation.
    - colesantiago 2y ago
      Apart for consultants which is what I recommend people get into for a high paying job, even looking at levels.fyi, the average pay is actually lower in the UK. Take Samsara, on average basis an entry level engineer in the US pays higher than a semi-senior SWE (SWE II) in the UK, taking into account the base as well for a senior also looks dismal for UK engineers. Even when these companies are public, UK salaries just don't seem to be competitive or appealing and this all just proves my point. Just go to the US, FAANG, finance or just be a consultant.
      - 2y ago

whitehexagon 2y ago

IR35 was enough for me to leave the UK and never look back. Doesn't matter how much they pay if you have tax/legal uncertainty.

dzonga 2y ago
where did you go to if you don't mind ?