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The term is "managed vps" and/or some variation of "marketplace image", I think it's linode that has a particularly... Vibrant (not in an all positive way) sele

The term is "managed vps" and/or some variation of "marketplace image", I think it's linode that has a particularly... Vibrant (not in an all positive way) selection. AWS' is pretty good, but not as diverse. I assume due to the increased technical aptitude of the average customer and the learning curve.

apitman 2y ago
One thing I strongly agree with you here is being open to the cloud. Self hosting strongly favors running on your own hardware, but indie hosting focuses more about the tangible benefits, ie data ownership, mobility which breeds competition, etc. That said, I think the VPS marketplace is still too complicated. What about updates, backups, TLS certs, domains, etc?
- transpute 2y ago
  > Self hosting strongly favors running on your own hardware In comparison, tenant (storage, colocation, cloud, VPS) hosting contracts often encompass Terms of Service, metered quotas/billing, acceptable use definitions, and regulatory compliance. > data ownership, mobility which breeds competition Historically, the buyers of commodity "web hosting" and IaaS have benefited from many competing vendors. Turnkey vertical SaaS often have price premiums and vendor lock-in. If "indie hosting" gains traction with easy to deploy and manage software, there may be upward pressure on pricing and downward pressure on mobility.
  - apitman 2y ago
    Great points. This is one reason I think it's important to build on protocols. It's attempt to "lock things open" and foster competition from the beginning. For example, my product TakingNames[0] builds on a simple, open OAuth2 protocol for delegating authority over domains. Anyone could implement a competing service in a matter of days, forcing me to compete on quality/price/etc. Another project I have is focused on bringing tunneling a la ngrok or Cloudflare Tunnel to the masses. There are many[1] tunneling services. This will be the first one built on a simple, open protocol for both auth and transit. [0]: https://takingnames.io https://takingnames.io [1]: https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling
- layer8 2y ago
  > What about updates, backups, TLS certs, domains, etc? You are right that one has to take care of those individually. For domains, however, I would say that it’s important that you manage them separately from the VPS provider, because this lets you switch VPSs easily at any time. For TLS certs you use something like certbot, or a web server like Caddy that has it built-in. It’s generally straightforward. VPS providers usually also offer backup solutions. If you use software from a Linux distribution like Debian or Ubuntu, automated security updates are easy.
  - apitman 2y ago
    > It’s generally straightforward For me, but what about my grandma? I want her to be able to live in a world where she can use her old smartphone to run an Immich server by simply installing an app like any other, then going through a simple OAuth flow to create a tunnel to the net so her friends can access her photos from a link she gives them. That's the level of UX I'm pursuing.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Why does grandma need that level of UX and to self host it? Why doesn't any of her loving grandchildren run an unRAID server at their house and help her out?
      - apitman 2y ago
        What if she doesn't want any of us to have unfettered access to all her data?
        immibis 2y ago
        Even knowing what that means, means she's probably technical enough to run her own server. You overestimate the average person's care about privacy.
- indigodaddy 2y ago
  As someone mentioned, regarding TLS, Caddy makes that REAL easy, as in pretty much touchless and the most dead simple config file you’ve ever seen
  - apitman 2y ago
    I use Caddy every day. My grandma, not so much.

apitman 2y ago

One thing I strongly agree with you here is being open to the cloud. Self hosting strongly favors running on your own hardware, but indie hosting focuses more about the tangible benefits, ie data ownership, mobility which breeds competition, etc. That said, I think the VPS marketplace is still too complicated. What about updates, backups, TLS certs, domains, etc?

transpute 2y ago
> Self hosting strongly favors running on your own hardware In comparison, tenant (storage, colocation, cloud, VPS) hosting contracts often encompass Terms of Service, metered quotas/billing, acceptable use definitions, and regulatory compliance. > data ownership, mobility which breeds competition Historically, the buyers of commodity "web hosting" and IaaS have benefited from many competing vendors. Turnkey vertical SaaS often have price premiums and vendor lock-in. If "indie hosting" gains traction with easy to deploy and manage software, there may be upward pressure on pricing and downward pressure on mobility.
- apitman 2y ago
  Great points. This is one reason I think it's important to build on protocols. It's attempt to "lock things open" and foster competition from the beginning. For example, my product TakingNames[0] builds on a simple, open OAuth2 protocol for delegating authority over domains. Anyone could implement a competing service in a matter of days, forcing me to compete on quality/price/etc. Another project I have is focused on bringing tunneling a la ngrok or Cloudflare Tunnel to the masses. There are many[1] tunneling services. This will be the first one built on a simple, open protocol for both auth and transit. [0]: https://takingnames.io https://takingnames.io [1]: https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling
layer8 2y ago
> What about updates, backups, TLS certs, domains, etc? You are right that one has to take care of those individually. For domains, however, I would say that it’s important that you manage them separately from the VPS provider, because this lets you switch VPSs easily at any time. For TLS certs you use something like certbot, or a web server like Caddy that has it built-in. It’s generally straightforward. VPS providers usually also offer backup solutions. If you use software from a Linux distribution like Debian or Ubuntu, automated security updates are easy.
- apitman 2y ago
  > It’s generally straightforward For me, but what about my grandma? I want her to be able to live in a world where she can use her old smartphone to run an Immich server by simply installing an app like any other, then going through a simple OAuth flow to create a tunnel to the net so her friends can access her photos from a link she gives them. That's the level of UX I'm pursuing.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Why does grandma need that level of UX and to self host it? Why doesn't any of her loving grandchildren run an unRAID server at their house and help her out?
    - apitman 2y ago
      What if she doesn't want any of us to have unfettered access to all her data?
      - immibis 2y ago
        Even knowing what that means, means she's probably technical enough to run her own server. You overestimate the average person's care about privacy.
indigodaddy 2y ago
As someone mentioned, regarding TLS, Caddy makes that REAL easy, as in pretty much touchless and the most dead simple config file you’ve ever seen
- apitman 2y ago
  I use Caddy every day. My grandma, not so much.