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FWIW Tim Pool calls for a civil war and the imprisonment and deaths of his political rivals (1) and has spread anti-Ukrainian propaganda (2) so you have a point

FWIW Tim Pool calls for a civil war and the imprisonment and deaths of his political rivals (1) and has spread anti-Ukrainian propaganda (2) so you have a point if you consider that to be Exactly The Same Thing as the BBC. There is a kind of odd phenomenon of equivocating countries that are allies with countries that are not and clear cut propaganda and incitement to violence with literally any other type of benign speech. I don’t know why people engage in such a forced thought experiment but it does happen. 1 https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1829950849482694938 https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1829950849482694938 2 https://x.com/realvisigoth/status/1831441494601077081 https://x.com/realvisigoth/status/1831441494601077081

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
[flagged]
- sceptical 2y ago
  The escalation narrative is propaganda. It is intended to sway public opinion and end support for Ukraine. But people seems to forget that Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine can and should do whatever they can to defend themselves. There is no escalation. We can see that with the Kursk invasion and the other of Putin's numerous red lines that has already been crossed.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Putins red lines are just china's final warning.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Is anything that is anti Ukraine considered propaganda? That's very clearly not what was said. Rather, they were referring specifically to content from Tim Pool. I agree he comes off as uncontrolled and it is bizarre. That's good to know. But here's the thing -- it doesn't matter that he may be right, or partially right on certain details (like Nordstream, for example). Because as a whole -- it's still propaganda, just from how it's structured, and the pungently shrill, and yes, intentionally uncontrolled and bizarre tone he employs. And from all the deceptions and diversions that's it packed with, and which we very quickly key into once we stop to break it all down. That's how propaganda works. It's kind of like a shit sandwich, we might say. Parts of it might be kind of tasty actually, and perhaps have some nutritive value. But as a whole, its nutritive value is entirely the opposite. And in fact can be quite toxic. As is basically every piece of content you will find from Tim Pool and others of his mold.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  > Is anything that is anti Ukraine considered propaganda? This is what I meant by odd equivocating. I made a clear point about Tim Pool and linked to a specific video. It is downright bizarre to ask the equivalent of “What if some other guy said something else entirely?” There is quite literally no room for misinterpretation unless it is forcibly introduced into conversation here.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      What does the fact that guy is literally yelling at you from the very first frame of the video suggest to you? Do you recognize any parallels between his tone, and that of certain other famous political personalities in history?
      - infamouscow 2y ago
        What makes it propaganda other than being anti-Ukraine? That this is so difficult to get a direct answer to suggests very strongly that you're also captured by propaganda and struggle to distinguish it from reality.
        jrflowers 2y ago
        From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda > Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented. From the specific example of the Tim Pool video posted earlier, his repetition of the phrase “Ukraine is our enemy” is a good example of loaded language meant to evoke an emotional rather than rational response. Propaganda is not actually nebulous or usually all that difficult to identify. There are of course degrees of nuance sometimes, but Tim Pool is no master of subtlety or rhetorical complexity. The idea that pointing out propaganda is the realm of people that have been “captured by [opposing] propaganda” is itself nonsense that traps a person in a sort of feedback loop (for example if that is how identifying propaganda works, if you notice that someone is captured by propaganda that is because you yourself are captured by a different propaganda). The idea that “propaganda” means “things I don’t want to hear” is factually wrong, and the endeavor of pretending that it is only accomplishes discouraging people from recognizing it.
- chipdart 2y ago
  > I feel like that word gets tossed around a lot (...) This is the standard playbook of those trying to avoid any scrutiny into these industrial propaganda campaigns mounted by the likes of Russia and China: when faced with the evidence, they rush to try to muddy the waters with inane non-sequiturs on semantics, or other logical fallacies such as whataboutisms.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

[flagged]

sceptical 2y ago
The escalation narrative is propaganda. It is intended to sway public opinion and end support for Ukraine. But people seems to forget that Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine can and should do whatever they can to defend themselves. There is no escalation. We can see that with the Kursk invasion and the other of Putin's numerous red lines that has already been crossed.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Putins red lines are just china's final warning.
aguaviva 2y ago
Is anything that is anti Ukraine considered propaganda? That's very clearly not what was said. Rather, they were referring specifically to content from Tim Pool. I agree he comes off as uncontrolled and it is bizarre. That's good to know. But here's the thing -- it doesn't matter that he may be right, or partially right on certain details (like Nordstream, for example). Because as a whole -- it's still propaganda, just from how it's structured, and the pungently shrill, and yes, intentionally uncontrolled and bizarre tone he employs. And from all the deceptions and diversions that's it packed with, and which we very quickly key into once we stop to break it all down. That's how propaganda works. It's kind of like a shit sandwich, we might say. Parts of it might be kind of tasty actually, and perhaps have some nutritive value. But as a whole, its nutritive value is entirely the opposite. And in fact can be quite toxic. As is basically every piece of content you will find from Tim Pool and others of his mold.
jrflowers 2y ago
> Is anything that is anti Ukraine considered propaganda? This is what I meant by odd equivocating. I made a clear point about Tim Pool and linked to a specific video. It is downright bizarre to ask the equivalent of “What if some other guy said something else entirely?” There is quite literally no room for misinterpretation unless it is forcibly introduced into conversation here.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    What does the fact that guy is literally yelling at you from the very first frame of the video suggest to you? Do you recognize any parallels between his tone, and that of certain other famous political personalities in history?
    - infamouscow 2y ago
      What makes it propaganda other than being anti-Ukraine? That this is so difficult to get a direct answer to suggests very strongly that you're also captured by propaganda and struggle to distinguish it from reality.
      - jrflowers 2y ago
        From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda > Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented. From the specific example of the Tim Pool video posted earlier, his repetition of the phrase “Ukraine is our enemy” is a good example of loaded language meant to evoke an emotional rather than rational response. Propaganda is not actually nebulous or usually all that difficult to identify. There are of course degrees of nuance sometimes, but Tim Pool is no master of subtlety or rhetorical complexity. The idea that pointing out propaganda is the realm of people that have been “captured by [opposing] propaganda” is itself nonsense that traps a person in a sort of feedback loop (for example if that is how identifying propaganda works, if you notice that someone is captured by propaganda that is because you yourself are captured by a different propaganda). The idea that “propaganda” means “things I don’t want to hear” is factually wrong, and the endeavor of pretending that it is only accomplishes discouraging people from recognizing it.
chipdart 2y ago
> I feel like that word gets tossed around a lot (...) This is the standard playbook of those trying to avoid any scrutiny into these industrial propaganda campaigns mounted by the likes of Russia and China: when faced with the evidence, they rush to try to muddy the waters with inane non-sequiturs on semantics, or other logical fallacies such as whataboutisms.