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How about another problem: supply of electricity and then its price? For those of us who don't drive but use electricity, we are going to experience much higher

How about another problem: supply of electricity and then its price? For those of us who don't drive but use electricity, we are going to experience much higher prices of electricity when the masses are forced to drive electric cars. I don't think much thought has gone into planning for this huge demand. The other problem i see with electric cars is the how long it takes to charge. I'm sure people will respond and say that's just another problem to solve but I just don't see charging ever being as fast as filling up at a gas station. Clearly the activity of using an electric car is going to be different from how an ICE powered car has been used. Has anyone written about this?

toomuchtodo 2y ago
> An analysis by KPMG says the U.S. currently has enough generating capability to charge 80 million EVs during overnight hours—hence the need to control when cars are charged. The Edison Electric Institute estimates there could be 26 million EVs on the road by 2030, up from about 3.2 million today. [1] [2] Most people will charge overnight (either at home or the office), the average daily round trip commute is ~40 miles (1-2 hours of charging at a level 2 charger to replenish this range, depending on current available). Fast DC charging can be performed in 15-20 minutes, depending on state of charge of the battery and the charging station. My Tesla, when supercharging at the grocery store, is finished faster than I finish shopping (for example). [1] https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2023/07/charging-ahead-addressing-the-ev-cost-hurdle.pdf https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2023/07/char... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/url-us-power-grid-electric-vehicles-ev-charging-11675444994 https://www.wsj.com/articles/url-us-power-grid-electric-vehi...
- tharmas 2y ago
  Thanks for the links. I should have included AI in my Doomsday scenario. AI is very power hungry. Of course AI server farms will not be spread out the way electric charging stations are but will be more concentrated but I do know tech CEO's are already looking at Canada to supply the expected electricity demand. That suggests to me there isn't enough capacity in the USA to meet that forecasted demand. >My Tesla, when supercharging at the grocery store, is finished faster than I finish shopping (for example). Where I'm at, the number of charging stations at the grocery store is already inadequate. They are always full. I see people with electric cars wanting to "get a spot" with a charger and there isn't any. This is what I mean about the lack of planning. The govt assumes that the market will meet demand but I just think mandating all cars be electric and relying on the market to meet that sudden demand is naïve.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Conversely, it is silly that we simply default to combustion vehicles because they are easy and we are lazy. Work is hard, and nothing in this thread described cannot be solved with existing technology. Maybe we could be less lazy? Maybe!
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  > hence the need to control when cars are charged People hate this idea, but this likely one of the biggest improvement we can make on how we utilise excess power. Imagine everyone plugs in after work, start charging whenever peak ends, either 9PM or 11PM. By 3AM most of the cars are done charging, yet there's 4 hours of off-peak capacity left not utilised. Whats worse, we'll see massive peaks around 9PM if we do not manage charging on wider scale.
mjamesaustin 2y ago
Increasing the supply of electricity is trivial, especially today with the advent of cheap and reliable solar. As more EVs join the grid, more capacity will be added, the same as any other technology. Crypto is a great example – Bitcoin scaled up to eating a noticeable chunk of all electricity in the world without anyone batting an eye. Nobody is being "forced" to drive an electric car – people are buying them because they have much better performance than traditional cars. Quieter, faster, lower maintenance costs, etc. I spend way less time refueling my car since switching to electric, as many owners will tell you. I just plug my car in about once per week before going to bed.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
dabinat 2y ago
I think a big barrier is that people used to ICEs want to charge EVs the same way they fill up with gas. One of the things I had to “unlearn” was wanting to charge to 100% every time. There are many arguments for not doing this, one of which is charging speed. Another thing I found is that driving an EV makes road trips more enjoyable and less draining because it forces me to take breaks. But it took me a while to fully embrace that.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

> An analysis by KPMG says the U.S. currently has enough generating capability to charge 80 million EVs during overnight hours—hence the need to control when cars are charged. The Edison Electric Institute estimates there could be 26 million EVs on the road by 2030, up from about 3.2 million today. [1] [2] Most people will charge overnight (either at home or the office), the average daily round trip commute is ~40 miles (1-2 hours of charging at a level 2 charger to replenish this range, depending on current available). Fast DC charging can be performed in 15-20 minutes, depending on state of charge of the battery and the charging station. My Tesla, when supercharging at the grocery store, is finished faster than I finish shopping (for example). [1] https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2023/07/charging-ahead-addressing-the-ev-cost-hurdle.pdf https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2023/07/char... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/url-us-power-grid-electric-vehicles-ev-charging-11675444994 https://www.wsj.com/articles/url-us-power-grid-electric-vehi...

tharmas 2y ago
Thanks for the links. I should have included AI in my Doomsday scenario. AI is very power hungry. Of course AI server farms will not be spread out the way electric charging stations are but will be more concentrated but I do know tech CEO's are already looking at Canada to supply the expected electricity demand. That suggests to me there isn't enough capacity in the USA to meet that forecasted demand. >My Tesla, when supercharging at the grocery store, is finished faster than I finish shopping (for example). Where I'm at, the number of charging stations at the grocery store is already inadequate. They are always full. I see people with electric cars wanting to "get a spot" with a charger and there isn't any. This is what I mean about the lack of planning. The govt assumes that the market will meet demand but I just think mandating all cars be electric and relying on the market to meet that sudden demand is naïve.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Conversely, it is silly that we simply default to combustion vehicles because they are easy and we are lazy. Work is hard, and nothing in this thread described cannot be solved with existing technology. Maybe we could be less lazy? Maybe!
dzhiurgis 2y ago
> hence the need to control when cars are charged People hate this idea, but this likely one of the biggest improvement we can make on how we utilise excess power. Imagine everyone plugs in after work, start charging whenever peak ends, either 9PM or 11PM. By 3AM most of the cars are done charging, yet there's 4 hours of off-peak capacity left not utilised. Whats worse, we'll see massive peaks around 9PM if we do not manage charging on wider scale.

mjamesaustin 2y ago

Increasing the supply of electricity is trivial, especially today with the advent of cheap and reliable solar. As more EVs join the grid, more capacity will be added, the same as any other technology. Crypto is a great example – Bitcoin scaled up to eating a noticeable chunk of all electricity in the world without anyone batting an eye. Nobody is being "forced" to drive an electric car – people are buying them because they have much better performance than traditional cars. Quieter, faster, lower maintenance costs, etc. I spend way less time refueling my car since switching to electric, as many owners will tell you. I just plug my car in about once per week before going to bed.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

dabinat 2y ago

I think a big barrier is that people used to ICEs want to charge EVs the same way they fill up with gas. One of the things I had to “unlearn” was wanting to charge to 100% every time. There are many arguments for not doing this, one of which is charging speed. Another thing I found is that driving an EV makes road trips more enjoyable and less draining because it forces me to take breaks. But it took me a while to fully embrace that.