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The Covid lockdown period coincided quite nicely with WoW Classic. But the experience of Classic WoW now is nothing like its early months (now 20 years ago!).

The Covid lockdown period coincided quite nicely with WoW Classic. But the experience of Classic WoW now is nothing like its early months (now 20 years ago!). It's a 'solved' game now, everything is known, documented, data mined, and optimized. Players rush to max level using optimized routes to then join guilds of like-minded players to speed-run the raids. Little tolerance for 'noobs'. The sense of adventure and exploration is long-gone.

ffsm8 2y ago
That's a cultural issue though. All (multiplayer/online) games can be considered "solved" as the practice of min maxing has become the norm. Sure, there are always a few days to weeks while the min/maxers are figuring things out, but that's generally not enough time for someone that's not a streamer to experience the content before a "solution" is provided.
tikkabhuna 2y ago
I can't agree enough with this. WoW back in the day was a little wild west, you could go to Wowhead or was it Thottbot (?) for information but it wasn't great. You could really explore and forge your own path. I rejoined for WoW Classic and to be honest playing without all my old friends was just quite sad. I had the same experience with CoD Warzone. It took off during Covid and I could play with a bunch of mates and people could run different loadouts and strategies. By the time Warzone 2 came out, everything is, like you said, optimized and little room for error. I honestly think streamers have ruined games with progression. There's too much drive to be at the top and too little focus on just enjoying the game.
- valval 2y ago
  You’re free to join any guild full of noobs and just ignore guides and material that you deem too optimized for you. I’m the exact opposite from you, always rushing to the end game content and competing on the leaderboards. I dislike nothing more than updates that dismiss serious end game players because the noobs (99% of the player base in all honesty) dictate the difficulty and rewards of the content.
kubb 2y ago
In a group you could theoretically run an ssf mode where your group is isolated from the rest of the world, and your enjoyment isn’t spoiled by people who have more experience than you.
mensetmanusman 2y ago
The future is real time random ai generated worlds requiring quick thinking by variously skilled folks. The environment could respond to the skill level of the folks to give them rewards based on the skill level observed.
nerdix 2y ago
Every online game with RPG elements devolves into this it seems. The community min-maxes the fun out of it. Destiny is like this now. There is a cottage industry of Destiny scientists who make YouTube videos that fill in the knowledge gap intentionally created by Bungie's vague descriptions of class abilities and traits. For instance, Bungie might write a description for a class trait like "while you have an elemental buff, your class ability regenerates more quickly". Then the scientists conduct experiments in the game to answer questions like how quickly? Is there a cap on the maximum amount of ability regen? how long does the buff last? does it stack with other class regen buffs, etc. Then the build theory crafting happens based on these findings and the community settles on a few meta builds. Of course, Bungie will nerf or buff things at will. And so with every new patch, comes a new round of experiments, theorycrafting, and meta builds. The community has little tolerance for those not using meta builds and you'll sometimes be kicked out of LFG if your gear is non meta. Have a build that is fun to play but slightly less efficient at damage output? Too bad, you're kicked. And because of the super vague descriptions, you can't just reason about builds with only in game knowledge. It requires you to spend a bunch of time on YouTube, reddit, discord, etc and to keep up to date with patches. It's like a part time job.

ffsm8 2y ago

That's a cultural issue though. All (multiplayer/online) games can be considered "solved" as the practice of min maxing has become the norm. Sure, there are always a few days to weeks while the min/maxers are figuring things out, but that's generally not enough time for someone that's not a streamer to experience the content before a "solution" is provided.

tikkabhuna 2y ago

I can't agree enough with this. WoW back in the day was a little wild west, you could go to Wowhead or was it Thottbot (?) for information but it wasn't great. You could really explore and forge your own path. I rejoined for WoW Classic and to be honest playing without all my old friends was just quite sad. I had the same experience with CoD Warzone. It took off during Covid and I could play with a bunch of mates and people could run different loadouts and strategies. By the time Warzone 2 came out, everything is, like you said, optimized and little room for error. I honestly think streamers have ruined games with progression. There's too much drive to be at the top and too little focus on just enjoying the game.

valval 2y ago
You’re free to join any guild full of noobs and just ignore guides and material that you deem too optimized for you. I’m the exact opposite from you, always rushing to the end game content and competing on the leaderboards. I dislike nothing more than updates that dismiss serious end game players because the noobs (99% of the player base in all honesty) dictate the difficulty and rewards of the content.

kubb 2y ago

In a group you could theoretically run an ssf mode where your group is isolated from the rest of the world, and your enjoyment isn’t spoiled by people who have more experience than you.

mensetmanusman 2y ago

The future is real time random ai generated worlds requiring quick thinking by variously skilled folks. The environment could respond to the skill level of the folks to give them rewards based on the skill level observed.

nerdix 2y ago

Every online game with RPG elements devolves into this it seems. The community min-maxes the fun out of it. Destiny is like this now. There is a cottage industry of Destiny scientists who make YouTube videos that fill in the knowledge gap intentionally created by Bungie's vague descriptions of class abilities and traits. For instance, Bungie might write a description for a class trait like "while you have an elemental buff, your class ability regenerates more quickly". Then the scientists conduct experiments in the game to answer questions like how quickly? Is there a cap on the maximum amount of ability regen? how long does the buff last? does it stack with other class regen buffs, etc. Then the build theory crafting happens based on these findings and the community settles on a few meta builds. Of course, Bungie will nerf or buff things at will. And so with every new patch, comes a new round of experiments, theorycrafting, and meta builds. The community has little tolerance for those not using meta builds and you'll sometimes be kicked out of LFG if your gear is non meta. Have a build that is fun to play but slightly less efficient at damage output? Too bad, you're kicked. And because of the super vague descriptions, you can't just reason about builds with only in game knowledge. It requires you to spend a bunch of time on YouTube, reddit, discord, etc and to keep up to date with patches. It's like a part time job.