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> Let the planet drop down to 1-2 billion people who all live a long way from poverty. ? The industrial revolution increased productivity x100 and poverty sti
by lm28469 2y ago
> Let the planet drop down to 1-2 billion people who all live a long way from poverty.
?
The industrial revolution increased productivity x100 and poverty still exists. We could materially solve it right now, easily. It's designed to be like that
- badpun 2y agoDepends on definiton of poverty. In many places, it has moved from living in objectively deprived conditions, to just being in the bottom centiles of population.
- lm28469 2y ago> Depends on definiton of poverty. People dying of hunger, people not having clean water, people dying because the $5 antibiotic shot isn't available in their country, &c. I don't care about relative poverty here, aka poverty threshold, which is by definition a moving threshold. For exemple in France the poverty threshold is defined as 60% of the median income, it doesn't tell you much about the "real" poverty
- xaellison 2y ago[dead]
- RandomLensman 2y agoIt's not designed like that. If there were no poverty in the world, GDP would be much higher and opportunities for trade much bigger - but how to get there is anyone's guess.
- lm28469 2y ago> If there were no poverty in the world, GDP would be much higher and opportunities for trade much bigger It's almost as if GDP doesn't mean jack shit since it's been completely misused from its intended purpose
- RandomLensman 2y agoNot sure I understand your point in relation to mine. Generally, GDP means a lot in relation to other indicators (including those for well-being).
- lm28469 2y agoNope, GDP is a completely outdated and next to useless metric, as any metric is when it becomes a target instead of a measurement. Some countries include illegal prostitution and illegal drug traffic in their GDP for exemple. GDP was an OK metric in a post war industrial world, not in whatever we could call what we're dealing with since the 90s, and even more since most of our "production" are services, GDP was just not meant to deal with that, not in any way that is meaningful to us in this discussion (and on top of that it is much better at measuring quantities than qualities) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gdp-is-the-wrong-tool-for-measuring-what-matters/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gdp-is-the-wrong-... https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-key-to-national-progress-is-no-longer-just-gdp-growth-its-prosperity/#:~:text=Since%20the%20end%20of%20World,country's%20wellbeing%20or%20social%20progress https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-ke....
- RandomLensman 2y agoCriticism of GDP is old and, yet, it endures and correlates well with a lot relevant things. So, I'd not ignore or discard it.
- lm28469 2y agoIt's the economic equivalent of assessing productivity of a developper by the number of commits a they push. Like yeah sure it tells you things, a very narrow set on things
- RandomLensman 2y agoNot really.
- roenxi 2y agoWell no, no we can't. That has been one of the issues that comes up every time someone does a quick check of what it would take for everyone to live even an average North American lifestyle, let alone something considered very comfortable by a US standard. We don't have the coal, we don't have the oil, we don't have the copper, the steel, the yadda yadda. Earth overshoot day was apparently last month. Less births is almost literally the only humane way I can think of to improve on that situation. That or cheap energy; the situation is hopeful on that front but we don't need to purposefully goose the birth rate since maybe something will go wrong with plan A.
- lm28469 2y ago> an average North American lifestyle That's very very very far from poverty... What about everyone living like the average eastern european ? That's already a 2-10x drop of wealth, still far from poverty
- analognoise 2y agoThere’s an inhuman way as well: the US, faced with declining standard of living, decides to use the fact that it has 12 super aircraft carriers and the 1, 2, 4, and 6th largest air forces - to ensure that standard of living stays where it is. Who said we’d choose the humane option?
- Jensson 2y ago> we don't have the steel We have the steel, there is no way we run out of it, we could wrap the entire earth in steel coating and still not run out, and that is just what we have easily available.
- b3lvedere 2y agoBy definition there will be no poverty when all resources are distributed equally, which will never happen.
- lm28469 2y agoThat's "poverty" as in "poverty threshold", that's not the only definition of the word. You're talking about "I can't buy the brand new iphone max pro" poverty while we have the "I will lose my hands to leprosy because the 10$ antibiotics were too expensive" poverty
- b3lvedere 2y agoMy apologies. I stand corrected.
- aperson_hello 2y agoThe share of the world population in extreme poverty has gone down by about 80% since 1960. And the number of people in extreme poverty has gone down by about 2/3 since 1970. It's getting better. Not as fast as it could or should, but it's getting better!!
- marssaxman 2y agoIs it truly getting better, though, when the engine of improvement depends on ecological overshoot? We cannot sustain this; we're not even trying. A gambler living the high life in Vegas, all paid for by opening one new credit card after another, would undoubtedly tell you that his life is getting better, too.
- Lammy 2y ago“Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.”