3 ms·

Why don't more people use Linux?

8 points by signa11 2y ago

hilbert42 2y ago
"And Linux isn't minimal effort. It's an operating system that demands more of you than does the commercial offerings from Microsoft and Apple." I wish this weren't so but it's true. Microsoft and Apple also have the numbers game on their side, and humans mainly want to be part of the crowd/with the numbers—not outsiders. There's also the matter of how Linux is developed, developers tend to develop for purposes other than maximizing its usability for end users, that is there's been no cohesive or strategic effort on the part of Linux developers (the Linux community as a whole) to steal users away from MS and Apple (there's no financial incentive to do so). It's the 'individuality' of Linux that hinders its widespread adoption.
- moondev 2y ago
  To me that is the best part. There is no shareholder value to answer to, there is no market share because there is nothing for sale. People can complain about gnome or kde and it doesn't matter one bit. You can't stage a "hostile takeover" and force a group to stop releasing their own work for free. There is no threat of an overnight architecture change for the sake of vertical integration. It's freedom when your tools are not at the mercy of these things. Honestly it's amazing that folks can team up from all over the world with this shared goal to take control of their computing.
  - maverick74 2y ago
    yeah!!! I agree with you!
  - taylodl 2y ago
    I think PulseAudio and systemd are significant counterexamples to your claim against staging a "hostile takeover." The community has learned, at a practical level, "hostile takeovers" can and will happen.
- maverick74 2y ago
  "And Linux isn't minimal effort." I don't agree with this anymore!!! Linux, presently, it's an easy OS. You don't have to get to the CLI if you don't want to. If you're "just" a simple user you can just live in the GUI like in windows and get on with it!!!
  - MissTake 2y ago
    Is it, really? With Windows you can just download an app. With MacOS you sometimes need to pick between Intel or Apple Silicon. For Linux you invariably have to navigate list of Deb or RPM, perhaps TarGz files, maybe a torrent or two. Sticking with apt can lead to a list of issues of ensuring you have the right dependencies. Let’s start before that : With Windows the OS usually comes pre installed, with Macs, always. Linux - with one to pick? Ubuntu, PopOS, Elementary? Oh, so you picked Ubuntu - congratulations - now which DE? Or should you pick a derivative such as Mint first? I’m a huge fan of Linux servers - I think they’re so easy to work with on a server level even with many of the same issues I described above and I’m actively ripping out every Windows server in our environment and replacing it with Linux. But I still, after all these years, can’t seem to pick a Desktop Linux platform that I feel comfortable with. And this after 40 years in the industry.
    - hilbert42 2y ago
      Right, for ordinary users there's an inertia to Linux that Apple and Windows don't have.
082349872349872 2y ago
Linux is like a tractor: very useful if you're in the percent that's being productive with it, but almost all other people (for whom computing is secondary) stick with cars (entertainment devices: tablets, etc.) and vans/trucks (corporate-directed work devices). Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ORYHQ-VMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ORYHQ-VMA
Zeetah 2y ago
I'm a very long time Windows user and am very very frustrated with Microsoft's shenanigans in the last few releases of Windows. I'm contemplating trying Linux but: 1. I don't know which distribution to start with. 2. I'm not thrilled about having to learn how to use Linux because I'd prefer to spend my time using the computer. 3. Fear, uncertainty, doubt alert: I've read about problems with power management or GPU drivers or audio or ... and I'm concerned about the time sink of going down the path of trying Linux and then having to go back to Windows. So, I resort to using Windows but then doing registry hacks to disable or change things I don't like. What would lower the bar enough for me to try Linux would be to use a performant Virtual box or similar VM, get it running well enough to know that Linux will work for me and then reuse or recreate that as the native/host OS. I don't want to use WSL because I don't want to get stuck in yet another Microsoft 'thing' with it's considerations.
- wruza 2y ago
  I have a long history using desktop linux and I deal with desktop linuxes on daily basis, and I’m far from being a noob, and I hate them. Just don’t. The issues, all of them are true and very likely. And you’ll find 10x more that weren’t worth mentioning in comparison. If you want that linux cli experience, install msys2, put it in path, and that is the only linux you need. Rename few tools that name-clash with cmd commands. Seriously, you’ll be very disappointed and ask why on earth you decided to spent so much (hard) time listening to nerds on the internet.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  >I don't know which distribution to start with try distrochooser.de as long as you use one of the more popular (ubuntu, fedora, popos) there isn't a wrong answer. You can always just flash multiple Distros on USBs (or Ventoy for multiple distros on one USB) and test them out in live mode without committing to any. Keep in mind you may need to disable secure boot in uefibios. >I'm not thrilled about having to learn how to use Linux because I'd prefer to spend my time using the computer People seem to think knowing windows is somehow a natural born skill. A OS is a tool and like any other and you need to understand the basics to properly use it, the better you can the more efficient you are with it. >I've read about problems with power management or GPU drivers or audio Issues exist but can be mitigated like on windows with research. "Does distro X / linux support hardware Y". For GPUs I generally would recommend AMD over Nvidia unless there are special requirements like Cuda. >What would lower the bar enough for me to try Linux would be to use a performant Virtual box or similar VM, get it running well enough to know that Linux will work for me A VM is a bad way to figure out compatibility for any OS. VM experience isn't comparable to bare metal.
wruza 2y ago
Linux desktop experience is awful and can only be seen as positive through heavily tinted glasses. It isn’t just a new UI thing, it is fundamentally fragmented and all fragments contain their own subset of problems that you can’t solve for you or your relative.
coisasdavida 2y ago
Because they can't pick a distro.

8 points by signa11 2y ago

"And Linux isn't minimal effort. It's an operating system that demands more of you than does the commercial offerings from Microsoft and Apple." I wish this weren't so but it's true. Microsoft and Apple also have the numbers game on their side, and humans mainly want to be part of the crowd/with the numbers—not outsiders. There's also the matter of how Linux is developed, developers tend to develop for purposes other than maximizing its usability for end users, that is there's been no cohesive or strategic effort on the part of Linux developers (the Linux community as a whole) to steal users away from MS and Apple (there's no financial incentive to do so). It's the 'individuality' of Linux that hinders its widespread adoption.

moondev 2y ago
To me that is the best part. There is no shareholder value to answer to, there is no market share because there is nothing for sale. People can complain about gnome or kde and it doesn't matter one bit. You can't stage a "hostile takeover" and force a group to stop releasing their own work for free. There is no threat of an overnight architecture change for the sake of vertical integration. It's freedom when your tools are not at the mercy of these things. Honestly it's amazing that folks can team up from all over the world with this shared goal to take control of their computing.
- maverick74 2y ago
  yeah!!! I agree with you!
- taylodl 2y ago
  I think PulseAudio and systemd are significant counterexamples to your claim against staging a "hostile takeover." The community has learned, at a practical level, "hostile takeovers" can and will happen.
maverick74 2y ago
"And Linux isn't minimal effort." I don't agree with this anymore!!! Linux, presently, it's an easy OS. You don't have to get to the CLI if you don't want to. If you're "just" a simple user you can just live in the GUI like in windows and get on with it!!!
- MissTake 2y ago
  Is it, really? With Windows you can just download an app. With MacOS you sometimes need to pick between Intel or Apple Silicon. For Linux you invariably have to navigate list of Deb or RPM, perhaps TarGz files, maybe a torrent or two. Sticking with apt can lead to a list of issues of ensuring you have the right dependencies. Let’s start before that : With Windows the OS usually comes pre installed, with Macs, always. Linux - with one to pick? Ubuntu, PopOS, Elementary? Oh, so you picked Ubuntu - congratulations - now which DE? Or should you pick a derivative such as Mint first? I’m a huge fan of Linux servers - I think they’re so easy to work with on a server level even with many of the same issues I described above and I’m actively ripping out every Windows server in our environment and replacing it with Linux. But I still, after all these years, can’t seem to pick a Desktop Linux platform that I feel comfortable with. And this after 40 years in the industry.
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    Right, for ordinary users there's an inertia to Linux that Apple and Windows don't have.

082349872349872 2y ago

Linux is like a tractor: very useful if you're in the percent that's being productive with it, but almost all other people (for whom computing is secondary) stick with cars (entertainment devices: tablets, etc.) and vans/trucks (corporate-directed work devices). Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ORYHQ-VMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ORYHQ-VMA

Zeetah 2y ago

I'm a very long time Windows user and am very very frustrated with Microsoft's shenanigans in the last few releases of Windows. I'm contemplating trying Linux but: 1. I don't know which distribution to start with. 2. I'm not thrilled about having to learn how to use Linux because I'd prefer to spend my time using the computer. 3. Fear, uncertainty, doubt alert: I've read about problems with power management or GPU drivers or audio or ... and I'm concerned about the time sink of going down the path of trying Linux and then having to go back to Windows. So, I resort to using Windows but then doing registry hacks to disable or change things I don't like. What would lower the bar enough for me to try Linux would be to use a performant Virtual box or similar VM, get it running well enough to know that Linux will work for me and then reuse or recreate that as the native/host OS. I don't want to use WSL because I don't want to get stuck in yet another Microsoft 'thing' with it's considerations.

wruza 2y ago
I have a long history using desktop linux and I deal with desktop linuxes on daily basis, and I’m far from being a noob, and I hate them. Just don’t. The issues, all of them are true and very likely. And you’ll find 10x more that weren’t worth mentioning in comparison. If you want that linux cli experience, install msys2, put it in path, and that is the only linux you need. Rename few tools that name-clash with cmd commands. Seriously, you’ll be very disappointed and ask why on earth you decided to spent so much (hard) time listening to nerds on the internet.
akimbostrawman 2y ago
>I don't know which distribution to start with try distrochooser.de as long as you use one of the more popular (ubuntu, fedora, popos) there isn't a wrong answer. You can always just flash multiple Distros on USBs (or Ventoy for multiple distros on one USB) and test them out in live mode without committing to any. Keep in mind you may need to disable secure boot in uefibios. >I'm not thrilled about having to learn how to use Linux because I'd prefer to spend my time using the computer People seem to think knowing windows is somehow a natural born skill. A OS is a tool and like any other and you need to understand the basics to properly use it, the better you can the more efficient you are with it. >I've read about problems with power management or GPU drivers or audio Issues exist but can be mitigated like on windows with research. "Does distro X / linux support hardware Y". For GPUs I generally would recommend AMD over Nvidia unless there are special requirements like Cuda. >What would lower the bar enough for me to try Linux would be to use a performant Virtual box or similar VM, get it running well enough to know that Linux will work for me A VM is a bad way to figure out compatibility for any OS. VM experience isn't comparable to bare metal.

wruza 2y ago

Linux desktop experience is awful and can only be seen as positive through heavily tinted glasses. It isn’t just a new UI thing, it is fundamentally fragmented and all fragments contain their own subset of problems that you can’t solve for you or your relative.

coisasdavida 2y ago

Because they can't pick a distro.