These kind of topics always differentiate into two sub-discussions. One about the idealized, democratic, cultured world order on top and how such things shouldn

These kind of topics always differentiate into two sub-discussions. One about the idealized, democratic, cultured world order on top and how such things shouldn't even exist. The other about the very real-politics that make it necessary and the other ugly old world things luking out there (land-empires, genocidal cultures etc.) that very much make the existence of special circumstances necessary. Ever since iraq- the idealists have lost ground, as usas influence in the world unravels. The funny thing is the inter-depedence. As in- when there side looses, the loosing side gets clingy to the other side. After Oslo has fallen apart, all thats left is some old-men talking really loud to convince themselves and everyone that the world they made is real and permanent, hysterically clinging to falcons and mercenaries.