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"He claimed to be an engineer" There are many here that do the same: Many IT jobs have titles with engineer (and architect, int al) in them. Those "engineers

"He claimed to be an engineer" There are many here that do the same: Many IT jobs have titles with engineer (and architect, int al) in them. Those "engineers" are not chartered in the formal sense. The term engineer is somewhat watered down these days, in a formal sense - it has become commonplace. I studied as far as what can be described as a civil engineering technician. Not an engineer. I own an IT company with 30+ years time served at the ... keyboard and rack and rails. I've frozen my nuts off in ill advisedly cold computer rooms to rescue improbably important systems and so on. Anyway, I allow some of my staff to call themselves technicians or techies, never engineers. I encourage the term "consultant" for time served staff.

miki123211 2y ago
> The term engineer is somewhat watered down these days That's a US thing, there are countries (notably Canada) where advertising yourself as an engineer without actually earning the title is illegal.
- digitalPhonix 2y ago
  Not true - professional engineering bodies in Canada are full of themselves and like to claim that though. Professional Engineers Ontario for example claims here that: > The term Engineer/Professional Engineer/P.Eng. can only be used by those that have been granted a licence by PEO, under the authority of the Professional Engineers Act. The title “Engineer” is restricted to Ontario licence holders under s. 40(2)(a.1) of the Act. Which is a very disingenuous interpretation of that clause: > (a.1) uses the title “engineer” or an abbreviation of that title in a manner that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering; And conveniently ignores the context of the previous clause to distinguish “engineer” and “professional engineer” > (a) uses the title “professional engineer” or “ingénieur” or an abbreviation or variation thereof as an occupational or business designation;
  - jpambrun 2y ago
    I feel those two quotes are pretty aligned? What is the issue?
    - vonunov 2y ago
      The common perception is something along the lines of "In Canada, it's illegal to call yourself an engineer unless you have a PE license, full stop." The quote from Professional Engineers Ontario seems to encourage this interpretation. But the statute they cite seems to be more specific than that. Offence, use of term “professional engineer”, etc. (2) Every person who is not a holder of a licence or a temporary licence and who, (a) uses the title “professional engineer” or “ingénieur” or an abbreviation or variation thereof as an occupational or business designation; (a.1) uses the title “engineer” or an abbreviation of that title in a manner that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering; [...] is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable for the first offence to a fine of not more than $10,000 and for each subsequent offence to a fine of not more than $25,000. I believe the hierarchy used here is meaningful. The use of "engineer" (as opposed to "professional engineer") is addressed in subparagraph (2)(a.1), under the paragraph (2)(a), which says that your job title or business name can't be "professional engineer" unless you are a professional engineer. Paragraph (2)(a.1) extends this to say that your job title or business name can't use "engineer" in a way that will make people think you are a professional engineer when you really aren't. This is in the context of the parent paragraph about claiming to be a professional engineer. If it were prohibited wholesale to call yourself an "engineer" under any circumstances without holding a PE, I wouldn't expect that to appear in this form in the statutes. In short, what the law really seems to say is that, without a PE license: - You can't claim to be a Professional Engineer - You can't claim to be an "engineer" and let people think it means you're a Professional Engineer This focuses on making sure that when we rely on engineering plans, they have been examined and approved by someone who knows what they're doing -- not on making "engineer" a protected title that is illegal to use unless you have a license. This interpretation of the statute suggests that there is actually nothing illegal about the use of the word "engineer" in job titles in Canada, as long as it's not done in a way that would cause a reasonable person to believe it means "licensed professional engineer".

miki123211 2y ago

> The term engineer is somewhat watered down these days That's a US thing, there are countries (notably Canada) where advertising yourself as an engineer without actually earning the title is illegal.

digitalPhonix 2y ago
Not true - professional engineering bodies in Canada are full of themselves and like to claim that though. Professional Engineers Ontario for example claims here that: > The term Engineer/Professional Engineer/P.Eng. can only be used by those that have been granted a licence by PEO, under the authority of the Professional Engineers Act. The title “Engineer” is restricted to Ontario licence holders under s. 40(2)(a.1) of the Act. Which is a very disingenuous interpretation of that clause: > (a.1) uses the title “engineer” or an abbreviation of that title in a manner that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering; And conveniently ignores the context of the previous clause to distinguish “engineer” and “professional engineer” > (a) uses the title “professional engineer” or “ingénieur” or an abbreviation or variation thereof as an occupational or business designation;
- jpambrun 2y ago
  I feel those two quotes are pretty aligned? What is the issue?
  - vonunov 2y ago
    The common perception is something along the lines of "In Canada, it's illegal to call yourself an engineer unless you have a PE license, full stop." The quote from Professional Engineers Ontario seems to encourage this interpretation. But the statute they cite seems to be more specific than that. Offence, use of term “professional engineer”, etc. (2) Every person who is not a holder of a licence or a temporary licence and who, (a) uses the title “professional engineer” or “ingénieur” or an abbreviation or variation thereof as an occupational or business designation; (a.1) uses the title “engineer” or an abbreviation of that title in a manner that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering; [...] is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable for the first offence to a fine of not more than $10,000 and for each subsequent offence to a fine of not more than $25,000. I believe the hierarchy used here is meaningful. The use of "engineer" (as opposed to "professional engineer") is addressed in subparagraph (2)(a.1), under the paragraph (2)(a), which says that your job title or business name can't be "professional engineer" unless you are a professional engineer. Paragraph (2)(a.1) extends this to say that your job title or business name can't use "engineer" in a way that will make people think you are a professional engineer when you really aren't. This is in the context of the parent paragraph about claiming to be a professional engineer. If it were prohibited wholesale to call yourself an "engineer" under any circumstances without holding a PE, I wouldn't expect that to appear in this form in the statutes. In short, what the law really seems to say is that, without a PE license: - You can't claim to be a Professional Engineer - You can't claim to be an "engineer" and let people think it means you're a Professional Engineer This focuses on making sure that when we rely on engineering plans, they have been examined and approved by someone who knows what they're doing -- not on making "engineer" a protected title that is illegal to use unless you have a license. This interpretation of the statute suggests that there is actually nothing illegal about the use of the word "engineer" in job titles in Canada, as long as it's not done in a way that would cause a reasonable person to believe it means "licensed professional engineer".