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Depends on what you mean by "valid". King George probably thought we weren't but not in the way you mean, eh? We could draw a line from the Magna Carta to the

Depends on what you mean by "valid". King George probably thought we weren't but not in the way you mean, eh? We could draw a line from the Magna Carta to the Equal Rights Amendment. Democracy is a work-in-progress.

AndrewKemendo 2y ago
Moreso the 3/5ths compromise means the republic didn’t actually represent a significant portion of their claimed collective territories inhabitants. The articles of confederation was a business arrangement primarily to consolidate a market with similar laws for the ability to monopolize the cotton market. Of which Britain was largest purchaser btw. So yes, from the beginning the Americas were a free “wilderness” that economic colonialism torched through. The Holocaust of first nations is just not even recognized as anything worth mentioning it seems. So yeah - as KRS One would say: “you can’t have justice on stolen land.”
- carapace 2y ago
  I bring up the genocide of the First Nations a lot. Slavery too. The point of the Revolution wasn't that the USA became a utopia instantly, the point is that they threw out the king and then didn't make themselves kings. Establishing and extending freedom and human rights has been and continues to be a slog, a hard-fought and ongoing battle. In re: the original statement, the capitalists didn't take over the government, they started it, and we the (rest of the) people are taking it over from them.
  - AndrewKemendo 2y ago
    I’d generally agree here - though frankly I don’t think it’s as notable as the “founders” want it to be that they didn’t immediately declare themselves lords (despite doing that for 100 years prior) I currently live in “Prince William” County. Take that for what you will but it’s not cause lordships weren’t around I don’t think anyone should get points for not behaving like a psychopath
    - carapace 2y ago
      Yeah I think we're in general agreement. Cheers. > I don’t think anyone should get points for not behaving like a psychopath Absolutely, but what counts as psychopathy has changed over time. We're getting away from the main thread here, but uh, one of my personal favorite historical ideas is that the modern political concepts of freedom and democracy come from the Iroquois: > Historians in the 20th century have suggested the Iroquois system of government influenced the development of the U.S. government,[293][294] although the extent and nature of this influence has been disputed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Influence_on_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Influence_on_the_Unit... In any event, it seems to me that we are recovering from some trauma in the past (I like the Younger Dryas for this but it doesn't really matter what the disaster was) and most of the psychopathy we see today is the residue of trans-generational PTSD. > “Prince William” County I guessed before checking that that's in Virginia. I haven't read it yet but "Albion's Seed" makes some interesting points (IMO): > Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America is a 1989 book by David Hackett Fischer that details the folkways of four groups of people who moved from distinct regions of Great Britain (Albion) to the United States. The argument is that the culture of each of the groups persisted, to provide the basis for the political culture of the modern United States.[2] Fischer explains "the origins and stability of a social system which for two centuries has remained stubbornly democratic in its politics, capitalist in its economy, libertarian in its laws and individualist in its society and pluralistic in its culture."[3] > The four migrations are discussed in the four main chapters of the book: > ... > The South of England to Virginia - The Cavaliers and Indentured Servants (Gentry influenced the Southern United States' plantation culture)[5] > ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion%27s_Seed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion%27s_Seed In Virginia exiled British nobility did their best to carry on with the strict social hierarchy of lords and serfs.
      - AndrewKemendo 2y ago
        All around agreement - though I’d nitpick the degree to which psychopathy was pervasive, accepted, recognized and promoted Namely it seems to be very rare in hunter gatherers and highest in “advanced” economies You can read my theory on the original resource trauma was here: https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html Yd might be causal to the loss of megafauna, but ultimately my claim is that was the loss of megafauna and resulting requirement to change society in the neolithic to domination based agrarianism Riane Eiseler documented most of this in Chalice and the blade

AndrewKemendo 2y ago

Moreso the 3/5ths compromise means the republic didn’t actually represent a significant portion of their claimed collective territories inhabitants. The articles of confederation was a business arrangement primarily to consolidate a market with similar laws for the ability to monopolize the cotton market. Of which Britain was largest purchaser btw. So yes, from the beginning the Americas were a free “wilderness” that economic colonialism torched through. The Holocaust of first nations is just not even recognized as anything worth mentioning it seems. So yeah - as KRS One would say: “you can’t have justice on stolen land.”

carapace 2y ago
I bring up the genocide of the First Nations a lot. Slavery too. The point of the Revolution wasn't that the USA became a utopia instantly, the point is that they threw out the king and then didn't make themselves kings. Establishing and extending freedom and human rights has been and continues to be a slog, a hard-fought and ongoing battle. In re: the original statement, the capitalists didn't take over the government, they started it, and we the (rest of the) people are taking it over from them.
- AndrewKemendo 2y ago
  I’d generally agree here - though frankly I don’t think it’s as notable as the “founders” want it to be that they didn’t immediately declare themselves lords (despite doing that for 100 years prior) I currently live in “Prince William” County. Take that for what you will but it’s not cause lordships weren’t around I don’t think anyone should get points for not behaving like a psychopath
  - carapace 2y ago
    Yeah I think we're in general agreement. Cheers. > I don’t think anyone should get points for not behaving like a psychopath Absolutely, but what counts as psychopathy has changed over time. We're getting away from the main thread here, but uh, one of my personal favorite historical ideas is that the modern political concepts of freedom and democracy come from the Iroquois: > Historians in the 20th century have suggested the Iroquois system of government influenced the development of the U.S. government,[293][294] although the extent and nature of this influence has been disputed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Influence_on_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Influence_on_the_Unit... In any event, it seems to me that we are recovering from some trauma in the past (I like the Younger Dryas for this but it doesn't really matter what the disaster was) and most of the psychopathy we see today is the residue of trans-generational PTSD. > “Prince William” County I guessed before checking that that's in Virginia. I haven't read it yet but "Albion's Seed" makes some interesting points (IMO): > Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America is a 1989 book by David Hackett Fischer that details the folkways of four groups of people who moved from distinct regions of Great Britain (Albion) to the United States. The argument is that the culture of each of the groups persisted, to provide the basis for the political culture of the modern United States.[2] Fischer explains "the origins and stability of a social system which for two centuries has remained stubbornly democratic in its politics, capitalist in its economy, libertarian in its laws and individualist in its society and pluralistic in its culture."[3] > The four migrations are discussed in the four main chapters of the book: > ... > The South of England to Virginia - The Cavaliers and Indentured Servants (Gentry influenced the Southern United States' plantation culture)[5] > ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion%27s_Seed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion%27s_Seed In Virginia exiled British nobility did their best to carry on with the strict social hierarchy of lords and serfs.
    - AndrewKemendo 2y ago
      All around agreement - though I’d nitpick the degree to which psychopathy was pervasive, accepted, recognized and promoted Namely it seems to be very rare in hunter gatherers and highest in “advanced” economies You can read my theory on the original resource trauma was here: https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html Yd might be causal to the loss of megafauna, but ultimately my claim is that was the loss of megafauna and resulting requirement to change society in the neolithic to domination based agrarianism Riane Eiseler documented most of this in Chalice and the blade