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> No matter how badly Amazon treats its workers, we all keep shopping there. Because they keep working there. So the workers think the conditions are worth it

> No matter how badly Amazon treats its workers, we all keep shopping there. Because they keep working there. So the workers think the conditions are worth it in exchange for their paycheck. If I disagree and shop elsewhere I'm effectively disagreeing with the workers and telling them I think they are making a bad deal and I don't want to contribute to their livelihood. But I don't actually know that they can make a better deal elsewhere. Before I move my purchase to Newegg or whatever should I first make sure that their working conditions are better? Or just judge by how often I see each company mentioned in the media? I think that the voluntary nature of employment is a sufficient circuit breaker. If it gets bad enough we can and do leave for better opportunities elsewhere. It wouldn't be the first, second or third time for me, and that includes minimum wage jobs. So I don't feel the duty to investigate the working conditions of each business I deal with.

thelastparadise 2y ago
We can all do better.
kevinventullo 2y ago
Slave work was also voluntary in a sense, it’s just that the alternative was your masters torturing and killing you.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Still is that way. You can refuse, but you will find yourself in nice tiny room with no distractions...
mucle6 2y ago
Everyone else in this thread frustrates me, but I understand it. Compassion is ingrained in us, while free market economics is not. Nobody here is really thinking through what happens if they are successful at boycotting and destroying Amazon. What would they say to these people they're supposedly helping? "I got you laid off! You don't have to work here anymore! You're free! Maybe you can't feed your family now but at least you can move your lips while you drive!"
- lazyasciiart 2y ago
  This is silly, because you are imagining that Amazon could disappear with no other change in society.
- egypturnash 2y ago
  Success in a boycott is not necessarily destroying Amazon. Success is making this decision cause enough financial pain to Amazon that they reverse it, and the next time some Frederick Taylor wannabe proposes something terrible along the same lines, everyone else reminds him of how much it hurt when they tried to stop the delivery drivers from singing along to music. Success is this weakening Amazon enough for their low-wage workers to unionize and demand representation on the board of directors and a bigger share of the profits.
  - mucle6 2y ago
    If the workers want better conditions they can leave. If all options are below what we would consider moral then we should change laws. The solution to a problem in a free market is not inside of one company.
    - wewtyflakes 2y ago
      We can do that too. This is not a sophie's choice.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - egypturnash 2y ago
      Why does change have to come through workers leaving Amazon? Why can’t it change via the workers negotiating with Amazon leadership? It sounds like you assume that corporations are immutable things, whose contracts and policies may never be changed. But we are having this conversation because Amazon’s policies changed, and the workers it affects are complaining. Why isn’t “Amazon rescinds this policy change” a solution to this problem?
tway_GdBRwW 2y ago
You're making a lot of assumptions about the availability of other work. I'm glad you've been able move between jobs, but it isn't always easy or available. You are probably also taking for granted a lot of the labor rights which were won over the last 100 years. For example, blacklisting used to be a thing, and it certainly did prevent job mobility, that was the whole point. You are also right that you as a CONSUMER should not have to check every company's credentials before doing business with them. But you as a CITIZEN might want to have your government do this through things such as minimum wage laws and overtime laws.
jen20 2y ago
> If I disagree and shop elsewhere I'm effectively disagreeing with the workers and telling them I think they are making a bad deal and I don't want to contribute to their livelihood. The fact that you can't order a product with any certainty that what you get won't be co-mingled fake trash from a third party is the best reason to stop ordering from them tbh.

thelastparadise 2y ago

We can all do better.

kevinventullo 2y ago

Slave work was also voluntary in a sense, it’s just that the alternative was your masters torturing and killing you.

Ekaros 2y ago
Still is that way. You can refuse, but you will find yourself in nice tiny room with no distractions...

mucle6 2y ago

Everyone else in this thread frustrates me, but I understand it. Compassion is ingrained in us, while free market economics is not. Nobody here is really thinking through what happens if they are successful at boycotting and destroying Amazon. What would they say to these people they're supposedly helping? "I got you laid off! You don't have to work here anymore! You're free! Maybe you can't feed your family now but at least you can move your lips while you drive!"

lazyasciiart 2y ago
This is silly, because you are imagining that Amazon could disappear with no other change in society.
egypturnash 2y ago
Success in a boycott is not necessarily destroying Amazon. Success is making this decision cause enough financial pain to Amazon that they reverse it, and the next time some Frederick Taylor wannabe proposes something terrible along the same lines, everyone else reminds him of how much it hurt when they tried to stop the delivery drivers from singing along to music. Success is this weakening Amazon enough for their low-wage workers to unionize and demand representation on the board of directors and a bigger share of the profits.
- mucle6 2y ago
  If the workers want better conditions they can leave. If all options are below what we would consider moral then we should change laws. The solution to a problem in a free market is not inside of one company.
  - wewtyflakes 2y ago
    We can do that too. This is not a sophie's choice.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - egypturnash 2y ago
    Why does change have to come through workers leaving Amazon? Why can’t it change via the workers negotiating with Amazon leadership? It sounds like you assume that corporations are immutable things, whose contracts and policies may never be changed. But we are having this conversation because Amazon’s policies changed, and the workers it affects are complaining. Why isn’t “Amazon rescinds this policy change” a solution to this problem?

tway_GdBRwW 2y ago

You're making a lot of assumptions about the availability of other work. I'm glad you've been able move between jobs, but it isn't always easy or available. You are probably also taking for granted a lot of the labor rights which were won over the last 100 years. For example, blacklisting used to be a thing, and it certainly did prevent job mobility, that was the whole point. You are also right that you as a CONSUMER should not have to check every company's credentials before doing business with them. But you as a CITIZEN might want to have your government do this through things such as minimum wage laws and overtime laws.

jen20 2y ago

> If I disagree and shop elsewhere I'm effectively disagreeing with the workers and telling them I think they are making a bad deal and I don't want to contribute to their livelihood. The fact that you can't order a product with any certainty that what you get won't be co-mingled fake trash from a third party is the best reason to stop ordering from them tbh.