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I don't get how some people struggle with the idea that he may simultaneously be a gifted businessman (in certain sectors, obviously Twitter was a disaster) and

I don't get how some people struggle with the idea that he may simultaneously be a gifted businessman (in certain sectors, obviously Twitter was a disaster) and also simultaneously be a raging asshole. Bill Gates was a raging asshole. Steve Jobs was a raging asshole. Larry Ellison was a raging asshole. It's not ideal, but it also doesn't preclude success.

rowanG077 2y ago
I think that it's actually helpful to a degree to be an asshole to be disruptive in a field. I expect you need a certain resolve of going against the flow. Something which is easier if you are an asshole.
rapsey 2y ago
The Musk derangement syndrome sufferers do not have the intelligence to see people as multifaceted creatures.
ripjaygn 2y ago
It's about propaganda, if they keep saying Musk didn't found SpaceX(real comments on Reddit) and keep upvoting those comments, and downvoting anyone saying he did with sources, then eventually new folks will believe that he didn't found SpaceX. On Reddit, mods of large subreddits like /r/news are permabanning people that just post an official SpaceX response and are censoring the comments. It's wild out there.
ryandrake 2y ago
It isn't required for success, either. If Elon Musk was never born, it is likely we'd still have SpaceX and Tesla equivalents, but with a better human being at the helm. A parallel universe also exists where Microsoft, Apple, and Oracle were not founded by raging assholes. The fact that these companies are all run by jerks is a terrible coincidence, but it does not necessarily need to be so.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  > If Elon Musk was never born, it is likely we'd still have SpaceX and Tesla equivalents I'm perturbed by Elon's politics and hypocrisy, but this is absolutely not true in anywhere near the same timeframe.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    So, out of the seven billion people on the planet, only Elon Musk could have made these companies what they are? No other person on Earth (given access to equivalent capital) could do it?
    - rowanG077 2y ago
      That's not remotely saying the same thing. Just because someone could do it doesn't mean it will happen. These things require MUCH more then just the possibility of it happening. For example I could go out right now and murder someone. Doesn't mean I will do it. I'm certainly capable of it. In fact most people are in this exact situation yet there are only a tiny amount of murders happening each day compared to the people capable of it. So the real question is. Is there someone else with a similar or better drive then Musk, that is as smart as Musk, that has as much discipline, has the right personality and at the right time. The answer is much more likely to be no then yes in my opinion. Because if the answer is yes we would have another Musk or close to it.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        I don't know. I happen to believe that many, many people are capable of running and growing a successful business, and that the limiting factor (and the reason they haven't already) is access to capital, not some special personality trait or pedigree or family background or really any particular expertise. Definitely millions, probably tens of millions, and maybe even hundreds of millions of people are capable of starting the next SpaceX-like enterprise, and the lack of access to $100M is the only thing stopping them. We'll never know, though, because no bank or investor just hands out start-up capital to nobodies. (I also happen to believe, and HN is going to hate this, that the high percentage of businesses that fail is a testament to how thoroughly misallocated capital is. So much capital goes to people who end up demonstrating they are incapable of deploying it. The trick that hasn't been solved yet is consistently finding who those many capable people are beforehand.)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Wytwwww 2y ago
> I don't get how some people struggle with the idea that he may simultaneously be a gifted businessman For me it's the Cybertruck. If find it hard to reconcile that a person with his track record could come up with that absurd abomination (makes me think that there is small small chance that all his other achievements were just extreme luck and random chance. Well in reality it's probably it due to lack of pressure/constraints that forced him to focus on making rational cars previously).

rowanG077 2y ago

I think that it's actually helpful to a degree to be an asshole to be disruptive in a field. I expect you need a certain resolve of going against the flow. Something which is easier if you are an asshole.

rapsey 2y ago

The Musk derangement syndrome sufferers do not have the intelligence to see people as multifaceted creatures.

ripjaygn 2y ago

It's about propaganda, if they keep saying Musk didn't found SpaceX(real comments on Reddit) and keep upvoting those comments, and downvoting anyone saying he did with sources, then eventually new folks will believe that he didn't found SpaceX. On Reddit, mods of large subreddits like /r/news are permabanning people that just post an official SpaceX response and are censoring the comments. It's wild out there.

ryandrake 2y ago

It isn't required for success, either. If Elon Musk was never born, it is likely we'd still have SpaceX and Tesla equivalents, but with a better human being at the helm. A parallel universe also exists where Microsoft, Apple, and Oracle were not founded by raging assholes. The fact that these companies are all run by jerks is a terrible coincidence, but it does not necessarily need to be so.

reducesuffering 2y ago
> If Elon Musk was never born, it is likely we'd still have SpaceX and Tesla equivalents I'm perturbed by Elon's politics and hypocrisy, but this is absolutely not true in anywhere near the same timeframe.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  So, out of the seven billion people on the planet, only Elon Musk could have made these companies what they are? No other person on Earth (given access to equivalent capital) could do it?
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    That's not remotely saying the same thing. Just because someone could do it doesn't mean it will happen. These things require MUCH more then just the possibility of it happening. For example I could go out right now and murder someone. Doesn't mean I will do it. I'm certainly capable of it. In fact most people are in this exact situation yet there are only a tiny amount of murders happening each day compared to the people capable of it. So the real question is. Is there someone else with a similar or better drive then Musk, that is as smart as Musk, that has as much discipline, has the right personality and at the right time. The answer is much more likely to be no then yes in my opinion. Because if the answer is yes we would have another Musk or close to it.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      I don't know. I happen to believe that many, many people are capable of running and growing a successful business, and that the limiting factor (and the reason they haven't already) is access to capital, not some special personality trait or pedigree or family background or really any particular expertise. Definitely millions, probably tens of millions, and maybe even hundreds of millions of people are capable of starting the next SpaceX-like enterprise, and the lack of access to $100M is the only thing stopping them. We'll never know, though, because no bank or investor just hands out start-up capital to nobodies. (I also happen to believe, and HN is going to hate this, that the high percentage of businesses that fail is a testament to how thoroughly misallocated capital is. So much capital goes to people who end up demonstrating they are incapable of deploying it. The trick that hasn't been solved yet is consistently finding who those many capable people are beforehand.)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Wytwwww 2y ago

> I don't get how some people struggle with the idea that he may simultaneously be a gifted businessman For me it's the Cybertruck. If find it hard to reconcile that a person with his track record could come up with that absurd abomination (makes me think that there is small small chance that all his other achievements were just extreme luck and random chance. Well in reality it's probably it due to lack of pressure/constraints that forced him to focus on making rational cars previously).