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> This seems to all be presupposed on the idea that the population growing is a positive thing is a universally accepted truth I used the number 2.1. It does n

> This seems to all be presupposed on the idea that the population growing is a positive thing is a universally accepted truth I used the number 2.1. It does not result in population growth. It gives you a nearly perfect population stability. It neither grows, nor shrinks. And if that's not good enough for you, if it happened right this moment, the population once stabilized would be a bit smaller than it is now. > But I realized that this one line shows that we fundamentally have different viewpoints about the purpose of life. "Purpose of life" sounds religious, or ignorant. Instead, let's talk about whether you like humans and think humans are positive. If you do, you would dislike any trend or event which would make them extinct. If the extinction is proceeding, and you're whining about how it's unfair that women are treated like babymaking machines (which all humans are, male and female), then it seems that quite without knowing it, you think humans are a negative thing. Not so negative maybe that they require being wiped out immediately, but negative enough you will do nothing to halt the slow-motion extinction that is coming. While there are the occasional individuals I dislike, I like humans in total, and I would be sad if I were forced to believe that they will be extinct 1000 years from now. But there is a growing sentiment that they are bad, and maybe this dull, unintelligent rock would be better off if humans were gone. A sort of death cult. > I don't want to force someone to have to live through that. My ancestors survived famines and disasters that would shock all of us into disbelief. Horrors and terrors. Predated upon, eaten alive. Suffering with diseases unknown to modern man. Much of the time without even understanding what was going on, it's no surprise they imagined and invented gods doing that to them, evil gods. For them to have gone through all that, and to give up on what we've all been doing because my children might have to figure out some engineering... naive or blasphemous, I don't know what to call it. My children could solve any problem, will solve them. > then that's not a world that doesn't match my value system and not one I want to subject my children to living in. So be it. The world always belonged to my children, and their children. I guess I should thank you for realizing yours were not fit to inherit it. > If we want humanity to continue, You've already made your choice. I see no reason to consult you further.

cthalupa 2y ago
Yeah. The guy who explicitly stated people who are too old to have children aren't worth saving is the person who values human life more than me. I find it bizarre that I'm being accused of cultlike thinking by someone who has distilled humanity down to just reproducing. We're not single-celled organisms, man. We can aspire to things greater than just having kids. > So be it. The world always belonged to my children, and their children. I guess I should thank you for realizing yours were not fit to inherit it. Making a value judgment about theoretical children based on a few online interactions is such a deeply weird thing to do. This whole interaction is one of the strangest I've had on the internet in several decades of using it.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  > Yeah. The guy who explicitly stated people who are too old to have children aren't worth saving is the person who values human life more than me. It's difficult to explain counter-intuitiveness to the unclever. But yes. Overvaluing the geriatric to the exclusion of children and pro-procreation is equivalent to not valuing human life. It seems like some people should be able to get that, given how the old are so close to death, that it's about valuing death. > I find it bizarre that I'm being accused of cultlike thinking by Many cult members report similar sentiments if/when they are deprogrammed. From the inside, they're pretty sure they're the normal ones, and everyone else is weird. > We're not single-celled organisms, So some claim. They're sure, somehow, that they've transcended their biology. That, descending from an unending lineage nearly 4 billion years long, that they are the specific individual that all of that happened for, and things need not continue beyond them. But you're just an animal. > We can aspire to things greater than just having kids. You absolutely cannot. When you do this, you die having achieved little and having left no one to replace you on planet Earth to continue whatever work you thought so important that you skipped making children. All your works will, within two centuries or less, be for naught. > This whole interaction is one of the strangest I've had on the internet in several decades of using it. That tends to happen when you chance upon someone not promoting the status quo.

cthalupa 2y ago

Yeah. The guy who explicitly stated people who are too old to have children aren't worth saving is the person who values human life more than me. I find it bizarre that I'm being accused of cultlike thinking by someone who has distilled humanity down to just reproducing. We're not single-celled organisms, man. We can aspire to things greater than just having kids. > So be it. The world always belonged to my children, and their children. I guess I should thank you for realizing yours were not fit to inherit it. Making a value judgment about theoretical children based on a few online interactions is such a deeply weird thing to do. This whole interaction is one of the strangest I've had on the internet in several decades of using it.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
> Yeah. The guy who explicitly stated people who are too old to have children aren't worth saving is the person who values human life more than me. It's difficult to explain counter-intuitiveness to the unclever. But yes. Overvaluing the geriatric to the exclusion of children and pro-procreation is equivalent to not valuing human life. It seems like some people should be able to get that, given how the old are so close to death, that it's about valuing death. > I find it bizarre that I'm being accused of cultlike thinking by Many cult members report similar sentiments if/when they are deprogrammed. From the inside, they're pretty sure they're the normal ones, and everyone else is weird. > We're not single-celled organisms, So some claim. They're sure, somehow, that they've transcended their biology. That, descending from an unending lineage nearly 4 billion years long, that they are the specific individual that all of that happened for, and things need not continue beyond them. But you're just an animal. > We can aspire to things greater than just having kids. You absolutely cannot. When you do this, you die having achieved little and having left no one to replace you on planet Earth to continue whatever work you thought so important that you skipped making children. All your works will, within two centuries or less, be for naught. > This whole interaction is one of the strangest I've had on the internet in several decades of using it. That tends to happen when you chance upon someone not promoting the status quo.