10 ms·

I think projects this magnitude are not good, with a 100B euro pricetag that will be diluted into paying for bureaucracy and conferences. It's good that it's ke

I think projects this magnitude are not good, with a 100B euro pricetag that will be diluted into paying for bureaucracy and conferences. It's good that it's keeping people busy though, can't criticise that.

diggan 2y ago
Just so others get a sense of the scale involved here: Currently the portal (CORDIS) has 13674 projects listed as part of Horizon Europe[0]. 100B eur would on average be ~73K EUR per project. While Horizon Europe itself is a huge project, the projects funded from it isn't always huge projects but sometimes small, incremental steps towards something, and sometimes larger projects. But with a perspective on how many projects are within the framework, 100B doesn't sound so much anymore. - [0] https://cordis.europa.eu/search?q=contenttype%3D%27project%27%20AND%20frameworkProgramme%3D%27HORIZON%27&p=1&num=10&srt=/project/contentUpdateDate:decreasing https://cordis.europa.eu/search?q=contenttype%3D%27project%2...
- octocop 2y ago
  You think 100B doesn't sound much? Do you want to up the numbers to 200B instead? I mean after all it's Cancer research
  - diggan 2y ago
    > You think 100B doesn't sound much? I think "~73K EUR per project" doesn't sound much, and I'd happily pay more taxes if I could be sure research would receive more of my taxes.
- octocop 2y ago
  I mean look at this project, https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/101183057 https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/101183057 "A digital twin of human milk". Sounds like a homerun right? I'd say 80% of the projects are just filled with buzzwords to get funding, and they rarely produce any good outcomes
  - lagadu 2y ago
    > rarely produce any good outcomes That's the nature of research.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > The research and innovation program, named GALATEA, stands as a pioneering venture targeting infant nutrition through the development of a digital twin of human milk. > The overarching objective is to create a sophisticated simulation platform that mirrors the intricate composition of human milk, allowing for the formulation of personalized nutrition plans for infants, particularly those born prematurely. > Anticipated outcomes include enhanced health outcomes for newborns, a deeper understanding of human milk for the advancement of artificial milk formulations, and the establishment of a robust research community dedicated to neonatal nutrition. I mean, the ideal outcomes sound pretty good. And the non-ideal outcome is we learnt about a bunch of stuff that doesn't work, that's how research works after all. What, exactly, is your critique about that particular research? That they call it a "digital twin", or what?
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    > The overarching objective is to create a sophisticated simulation platform that mirrors the intricate composition of human milk, allowing for the formulation of personalized nutrition plans for infants, particularly those born prematurely. I don't see any buzzwords there; simulation is an indispensable tool modern for biochemistry. If you stopped reading at the (admittedly daft) acronym, it's worth keeping in mind that, outside computer circles, 'digital twin' now refers to any kind of simulation or tracking of a physical resource. This is not some nebulous proposal for a blockchain NFT of human milk, it's genuine scientific research.
phatfish 2y ago
It's not a monolithic project, it's a funding pool where an organisation can apply for access. It's not even limited to EU member states, the UK has returned as a partner after the Conservative party got their panties in a twist about it during Brexit.
- diggan 2y ago
  And latest news is that Canada also joined up :) > Canada is joining the growing group of non-EU countries who have associated to the EU's research and innovation programme, Horizon Europe, and will work jointly on large-scale projects tackling our biggest challenges. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_24_3626 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_24_... The more the merrier!
r00fus 2y ago
In the US we spend 10x that on military expenditures that have marginal benefit to our own society. I think the EU model is preferable.

diggan 2y ago

Just so others get a sense of the scale involved here: Currently the portal (CORDIS) has 13674 projects listed as part of Horizon Europe[0]. 100B eur would on average be ~73K EUR per project. While Horizon Europe itself is a huge project, the projects funded from it isn't always huge projects but sometimes small, incremental steps towards something, and sometimes larger projects. But with a perspective on how many projects are within the framework, 100B doesn't sound so much anymore. - [0] https://cordis.europa.eu/search?q=contenttype%3D%27project%27%20AND%20frameworkProgramme%3D%27HORIZON%27&p=1&num=10&srt=/project/contentUpdateDate:decreasing https://cordis.europa.eu/search?q=contenttype%3D%27project%2...

octocop 2y ago
You think 100B doesn't sound much? Do you want to up the numbers to 200B instead? I mean after all it's Cancer research
- diggan 2y ago
  > You think 100B doesn't sound much? I think "~73K EUR per project" doesn't sound much, and I'd happily pay more taxes if I could be sure research would receive more of my taxes.
octocop 2y ago
I mean look at this project, https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/101183057 https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/101183057 "A digital twin of human milk". Sounds like a homerun right? I'd say 80% of the projects are just filled with buzzwords to get funding, and they rarely produce any good outcomes
- lagadu 2y ago
  > rarely produce any good outcomes That's the nature of research.
- diggan 2y ago
  > The research and innovation program, named GALATEA, stands as a pioneering venture targeting infant nutrition through the development of a digital twin of human milk. > The overarching objective is to create a sophisticated simulation platform that mirrors the intricate composition of human milk, allowing for the formulation of personalized nutrition plans for infants, particularly those born prematurely. > Anticipated outcomes include enhanced health outcomes for newborns, a deeper understanding of human milk for the advancement of artificial milk formulations, and the establishment of a robust research community dedicated to neonatal nutrition. I mean, the ideal outcomes sound pretty good. And the non-ideal outcome is we learnt about a bunch of stuff that doesn't work, that's how research works after all. What, exactly, is your critique about that particular research? That they call it a "digital twin", or what?
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  > The overarching objective is to create a sophisticated simulation platform that mirrors the intricate composition of human milk, allowing for the formulation of personalized nutrition plans for infants, particularly those born prematurely. I don't see any buzzwords there; simulation is an indispensable tool modern for biochemistry. If you stopped reading at the (admittedly daft) acronym, it's worth keeping in mind that, outside computer circles, 'digital twin' now refers to any kind of simulation or tracking of a physical resource. This is not some nebulous proposal for a blockchain NFT of human milk, it's genuine scientific research.

phatfish 2y ago

It's not a monolithic project, it's a funding pool where an organisation can apply for access. It's not even limited to EU member states, the UK has returned as a partner after the Conservative party got their panties in a twist about it during Brexit.

diggan 2y ago
And latest news is that Canada also joined up :) > Canada is joining the growing group of non-EU countries who have associated to the EU's research and innovation programme, Horizon Europe, and will work jointly on large-scale projects tackling our biggest challenges. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_24_3626 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_24_... The more the merrier!

r00fus 2y ago

In the US we spend 10x that on military expenditures that have marginal benefit to our own society. I think the EU model is preferable.