4 ms·

I know I shouldn't feel this way but I never see the poster of questions or answers as women? I'm not saying at all that I think the value of a woman programmer

I know I shouldn't feel this way but I never see the poster of questions or answers as women? I'm not saying at all that I think the value of a woman programmer is any less than a mans, I just do not encounter women in programming, full stop. I actually started reading that post then as if it was from a man and I thought they were making a sexist remark about "are my women here". When I discovered it was a woman, I read it again in a different context completely. I don't know what other peoples regions are like but whenever I encounter a programmer anywhere, they are male?

gms7777 14y ago
Wow, at all? That's surprising. Certainly there are more males in tech, but that's still unusual. If you don't mind me asking, what region are you from? Sadly, even as a woman, I myself am often guilty of assuming other programmers are men, if I don't have any evidence to the contrary. There was a new york times article recently about the same problem in a different, and far more gender-balanced, field: medicine. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/assuming-the-doctors-a-he/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/assuming-the-doctor...
- chrislomax 14y ago
  I have never in my years encountered a woman developer, ever. I live in UK near Manchester. I have encountered my fair share of female SEO's but never actually a developer? I don't think from my point of view it can even be classed as stereotypical when it's just the way it appears to be? (Where I am at least) I don't think it matters either way but it is equally something that I have ever thought about.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    One of the best coders I know is female. She left the UK to work out in the far east where she is considered less of an oddity.
    - chrislomax 14y ago
      Well as I was writing that post I got to thinking, woman (in my opinion) generally have a better idea of logic. Organisation and planning come second nature to a lot of women I know, where men (in general again) it takes more to get the planning right. This makes me think that women would be better at programming, as a generalisation. This obviously cannot be applied to all people but in my opinion and experience women are more logical and organised.
  - petercooper 14y ago
    Maybe you don't go to the right/enough events. I'm a bit of a hermit but even I know several female developers in the north (mostly in Manchester and Leeds) from events like BarCamp Manchester, Leeds Hack, and GeekUp. Maybe there are tech events up here that women don't attend but I haven't come across one yet.. meaning perhaps I don't go to enough events either ;-)
vacri 14y ago
Don't feel guilty about it, but you can be aware of the issue and account for it. It's stereotyping. Most of the time, stereotyping works for us in our lives - the stereotype of 'a chair' and 'a tree' and so forth all make sense. If someone says 'can you go out the back and move the chairs under the tree?', you'll know what to look for because of stereotyping. Occasionally you see chairs that take a bit of figuring out before you realise they're chairs. The problem is when stereotyping fails. When it fails with a chair, there is no problem. When it fails with people, those people are marginalised and it seriously affects them. Given the preponderance of men in programming, it's easy to stereotype a male programmer, but it's something we're aware of being wrong. So don't feel guilty about it, but work to fix it. Apart from the stereotyping there is a separate issue, being that a lot of men start treating another user quite differently once they find out they're women (hostility, sexual advances etc). That's unforgivable.

gms7777 14y ago

Wow, at all? That's surprising. Certainly there are more males in tech, but that's still unusual. If you don't mind me asking, what region are you from? Sadly, even as a woman, I myself am often guilty of assuming other programmers are men, if I don't have any evidence to the contrary. There was a new york times article recently about the same problem in a different, and far more gender-balanced, field: medicine. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/assuming-the-doctors-a-he/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/assuming-the-doctor...

chrislomax 14y ago
I have never in my years encountered a woman developer, ever. I live in UK near Manchester. I have encountered my fair share of female SEO's but never actually a developer? I don't think from my point of view it can even be classed as stereotypical when it's just the way it appears to be? (Where I am at least) I don't think it matters either way but it is equally something that I have ever thought about.
- ktizo 14y ago
  One of the best coders I know is female. She left the UK to work out in the far east where she is considered less of an oddity.
  - chrislomax 14y ago
    Well as I was writing that post I got to thinking, woman (in my opinion) generally have a better idea of logic. Organisation and planning come second nature to a lot of women I know, where men (in general again) it takes more to get the planning right. This makes me think that women would be better at programming, as a generalisation. This obviously cannot be applied to all people but in my opinion and experience women are more logical and organised.
- petercooper 14y ago
  Maybe you don't go to the right/enough events. I'm a bit of a hermit but even I know several female developers in the north (mostly in Manchester and Leeds) from events like BarCamp Manchester, Leeds Hack, and GeekUp. Maybe there are tech events up here that women don't attend but I haven't come across one yet.. meaning perhaps I don't go to enough events either ;-)

vacri 14y ago

Don't feel guilty about it, but you can be aware of the issue and account for it. It's stereotyping. Most of the time, stereotyping works for us in our lives - the stereotype of 'a chair' and 'a tree' and so forth all make sense. If someone says 'can you go out the back and move the chairs under the tree?', you'll know what to look for because of stereotyping. Occasionally you see chairs that take a bit of figuring out before you realise they're chairs. The problem is when stereotyping fails. When it fails with a chair, there is no problem. When it fails with people, those people are marginalised and it seriously affects them. Given the preponderance of men in programming, it's easy to stereotype a male programmer, but it's something we're aware of being wrong. So don't feel guilty about it, but work to fix it. Apart from the stereotyping there is a separate issue, being that a lot of men start treating another user quite differently once they find out they're women (hostility, sexual advances etc). That's unforgivable.