5 ms·

One tough thing for HTML5 is that the platforms that the community want to write for (iOS & Android) have no intrinsic incentive to actually support it (other t

by kunle 14y ago

One tough thing for HTML5 is that the platforms that the community want to write for (iOS & Android) have no intrinsic incentive to actually support it (other than lip service). A world where HTML5 is dominant for the most profitable tier of games or apps is a world where the best developers dont have to write in iOS & Android (where Apple and Google respectively make their money), so given that, what's their incentive to make sure HTML5 reaches feature/performance parity with their native platforms?

Peaker 14y ago
Apple is claiming that the app store is break-even. That it benefits them only indirectly by making iOS a more attractive choice. If that is true, and HTML5 worked better with iOS than with Android, that would work well within that strategy. I think perhaps there are other reasons for poor HTML5 support on the mobile platforms.
- zmmmmm 14y ago
  > it benefits them only indirectly by making iOS a more attractive choice Since you agree it benefits them - and your use of the word "only" is deceptive here; having the best app catalog is no marginal thing, it is an enormous benefit, often cited as the primary reason Android tablets have struggled and why WP7 failed - why don't you think that benefit - which exists primarily because HTML5 still sucks for mobile apps - incentivises them not to improve browsers? It would be trivial for both Google and Apple to remove a large number of the barriers to HTML5 apps replacing native apps. But they don't, and it's been long enough that time is not an excuse.
- ThomPete 14y ago
  Apple don't want the app store to be anything but break even. They have it because it's a way to make money where it really matters which is the hardware.
- hdragomir 14y ago
  wooga chose to focus on iOS because of the less fragmentation. I work on Pocket Island, at wooga.
- cageface 14y ago
  iOS has by far the best support for HTML5 of any mobile platform. If Apple felt threatened by HTML5 I'd expect to see a lot more evidence of sabotage.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    What are you basing this on? At minimum Chrome and Firefox have better html5 support, as they have near parity with their desktop counterparts. I don't have the numbers but I'd guess Opera Mobile has better html5 compatibility as well.
    - cageface 14y ago
      I'm talking about the browser shipping with the system, which is what 99% of the people using the device are going to use and where web apps are going to live or die. Once Android starts shipping with Chrome stock things will be different.
      - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
        I really doubt it has significantly better html5 support than the Android browser, if it's even better at all. But goal posts moving aside, your point was that Safari is somehow evidence that html is important to Apple, when viewed in the context of the entire industry it's above average. Lots of companies are doing good things with html in mobile, even Rim.
        cageface 14y ago
        Mobile Safari is head & shoulders better than the stock Android browser, which is really a piece of shit. This is abundantly documented all over the web. Just ask the Sencha guys how much fun they've had trying to get acceptable performance out of Android. Judging the companies by the browser they put in front of users, Apple cares more about HTML5 than anybody else. Like I said, if Google can get mobile Chrome out there I'll revise my assessment.
        14y ago
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
A similar, but less conspiracy-y explanation is that there is essentially no browser competition in mobile so there is no motivation to improve like on desktop. Hence, the two major OS vendors update their browsers yearly.
greggman 14y ago
You can cross develop though Either Native -> HTML5 with things like Mandreel (http://www.mandreel.com/ http://www.mandreel.com/) or HTML5 to Native with things like cocoon.js (http://ludei.com/tech/cocoonjs http://ludei.com/tech/cocoonjs) Even many "native" apps just embed the native browser as a widget. Development is often much faster that way and they can fall back to native APIs for those few features HTML5 doesn't give them access too
- flatline3 14y ago
  > Even many "native" apps just embed the native browser as a widget. They sacrifice UX doing so. > Development is often much faster that way ... It's faster for their existing web team, which is what this is really about.
  - greggman 14y ago
    I'm not sure that's true. I think there are some fairly popular mobile apps using a webview. The facebook app? Honestly I don't know if that's true but their mobile website has almost the exact same UX. There's a few subtle differences but maybe those come from some glue around a webview and not all brand new code.
josephcooney 14y ago
How much do google really make from Android?
- hdragomir 14y ago
  A fraction of what AppStore revenue is -- even though they have more market share. :-(

by kunle 14y ago

Peaker 14y ago

Apple is claiming that the app store is break-even. That it benefits them only indirectly by making iOS a more attractive choice. If that is true, and HTML5 worked better with iOS than with Android, that would work well within that strategy. I think perhaps there are other reasons for poor HTML5 support on the mobile platforms.

zmmmmm 14y ago
> it benefits them only indirectly by making iOS a more attractive choice Since you agree it benefits them - and your use of the word "only" is deceptive here; having the best app catalog is no marginal thing, it is an enormous benefit, often cited as the primary reason Android tablets have struggled and why WP7 failed - why don't you think that benefit - which exists primarily because HTML5 still sucks for mobile apps - incentivises them not to improve browsers? It would be trivial for both Google and Apple to remove a large number of the barriers to HTML5 apps replacing native apps. But they don't, and it's been long enough that time is not an excuse.
ThomPete 14y ago
Apple don't want the app store to be anything but break even. They have it because it's a way to make money where it really matters which is the hardware.
hdragomir 14y ago
wooga chose to focus on iOS because of the less fragmentation. I work on Pocket Island, at wooga.
cageface 14y ago
iOS has by far the best support for HTML5 of any mobile platform. If Apple felt threatened by HTML5 I'd expect to see a lot more evidence of sabotage.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  What are you basing this on? At minimum Chrome and Firefox have better html5 support, as they have near parity with their desktop counterparts. I don't have the numbers but I'd guess Opera Mobile has better html5 compatibility as well.
  - cageface 14y ago
    I'm talking about the browser shipping with the system, which is what 99% of the people using the device are going to use and where web apps are going to live or die. Once Android starts shipping with Chrome stock things will be different.
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      I really doubt it has significantly better html5 support than the Android browser, if it's even better at all. But goal posts moving aside, your point was that Safari is somehow evidence that html is important to Apple, when viewed in the context of the entire industry it's above average. Lots of companies are doing good things with html in mobile, even Rim.
      - cageface 14y ago
        Mobile Safari is head & shoulders better than the stock Android browser, which is really a piece of shit. This is abundantly documented all over the web. Just ask the Sencha guys how much fun they've had trying to get acceptable performance out of Android. Judging the companies by the browser they put in front of users, Apple cares more about HTML5 than anybody else. Like I said, if Google can get mobile Chrome out there I'll revise my assessment.
      - 14y ago

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

A similar, but less conspiracy-y explanation is that there is essentially no browser competition in mobile so there is no motivation to improve like on desktop. Hence, the two major OS vendors update their browsers yearly.

greggman 14y ago

You can cross develop though Either Native -> HTML5 with things like Mandreel (http://www.mandreel.com/ http://www.mandreel.com/) or HTML5 to Native with things like cocoon.js (http://ludei.com/tech/cocoonjs http://ludei.com/tech/cocoonjs) Even many "native" apps just embed the native browser as a widget. Development is often much faster that way and they can fall back to native APIs for those few features HTML5 doesn't give them access too

flatline3 14y ago
> Even many "native" apps just embed the native browser as a widget. They sacrifice UX doing so. > Development is often much faster that way ... It's faster for their existing web team, which is what this is really about.
- greggman 14y ago
  I'm not sure that's true. I think there are some fairly popular mobile apps using a webview. The facebook app? Honestly I don't know if that's true but their mobile website has almost the exact same UX. There's a few subtle differences but maybe those come from some glue around a webview and not all brand new code.

josephcooney 14y ago

How much do google really make from Android?

hdragomir 14y ago
A fraction of what AppStore revenue is -- even though they have more market share. :-(