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> deprive opportunities Jury is out on this one. Japan has hardly any immigration yet their wages stagnated. Canada has a ton of immigration and their wages ar

> deprive opportunities Jury is out on this one. Japan has hardly any immigration yet their wages stagnated. Canada has a ton of immigration and their wages are also stagnant. Europe is somewhere between Japan and Canada, with also stagnant wages. Nobody disputes wages are stagnant, but the degree to which skilled immigration suppresses wages is an area where economists are unsure or even tilting towards a 'no' answer. > if they're so good for the economy in America why aren't they good for the economy in their own country There are so many jobs that are available only in industrialized countries. You won't find semiconductor fabs or airplane factories in undeveloped countries.

the_real_cher 2y ago
> wages stagnated I don't really think wages are a proxy for opportunity as central banks can make currency worthless. There's computer science graduates in America who would take a job in their field for pittances just to be working in their field. > There are so many jobs that are available only in industrialized countries Well start! Half the startups in the 90s Americans built out of their garage.
- cherryteastain 2y ago
  A person in the US founding a startup has access and exposure to the deepest capital markets in the world, the largest domestic market in the world, a stable legal and political environment, and a phenomenal talent pool. A person doing the same in e.g. Vietnam has access to almost 0 VC funding, tiny domestic market, his efforts are hindered by a capricious and restrictive legal and political environment and a very low skilled talent pool. Someone with the same competency as say Bill Gates has an infinitely lower chance of making it big. People do not risk their lives and leave their families behind because they really love going to Cheesecake Factory everday in the US, it's because opportunities often flat out do not exist in their country for what they want to do. Even among successful businesses founded in (currently or formerly) less industrialized countries, you will see that a huge proportion are actually state owned or backed (e.g. TSMC, Samsung)
  - the_real_cher 2y ago
    Opportunities didn't exist in America until Americans made them exist. Apple was founded in a garage. Time for people in other countries to do the same for their own country. A good product or a good idea will surface. Your excuses fall on deaf ears.
    - t43562 2y ago
      ...and yet America was built by immigrants who couldn't make opportunities at home.
      - the_real_cher 2y ago
        America was a colony who overthrew a repressive dictatorship for it's independence.
        t43562 2y ago
        ...made up of immigrants who were looking for a better life.
        the_real_cher 2y ago
        They literally founded the country.
    - pacerier 2y ago
      America had been a pristine land of opportunity long before the first American was born. Americans didn't make America, America made Americans. Apple was founded after WWII (it would not exist today without a WWII victory). Time for people in other countries to do the same what? War? More natives killing? A good product or a good idea will surface tomorrow eventually. But men being men will go where the money/food is today, no excuses needed. In fact no killing of natives needed either, so what's holding you back really?

the_real_cher 2y ago

> wages stagnated I don't really think wages are a proxy for opportunity as central banks can make currency worthless. There's computer science graduates in America who would take a job in their field for pittances just to be working in their field. > There are so many jobs that are available only in industrialized countries Well start! Half the startups in the 90s Americans built out of their garage.

cherryteastain 2y ago
A person in the US founding a startup has access and exposure to the deepest capital markets in the world, the largest domestic market in the world, a stable legal and political environment, and a phenomenal talent pool. A person doing the same in e.g. Vietnam has access to almost 0 VC funding, tiny domestic market, his efforts are hindered by a capricious and restrictive legal and political environment and a very low skilled talent pool. Someone with the same competency as say Bill Gates has an infinitely lower chance of making it big. People do not risk their lives and leave their families behind because they really love going to Cheesecake Factory everday in the US, it's because opportunities often flat out do not exist in their country for what they want to do. Even among successful businesses founded in (currently or formerly) less industrialized countries, you will see that a huge proportion are actually state owned or backed (e.g. TSMC, Samsung)
- the_real_cher 2y ago
  Opportunities didn't exist in America until Americans made them exist. Apple was founded in a garage. Time for people in other countries to do the same for their own country. A good product or a good idea will surface. Your excuses fall on deaf ears.
  - t43562 2y ago
    ...and yet America was built by immigrants who couldn't make opportunities at home.
    - the_real_cher 2y ago
      America was a colony who overthrew a repressive dictatorship for it's independence.
      - t43562 2y ago
        ...made up of immigrants who were looking for a better life.
        the_real_cher 2y ago
        They literally founded the country.
  - pacerier 2y ago
    America had been a pristine land of opportunity long before the first American was born. Americans didn't make America, America made Americans. Apple was founded after WWII (it would not exist today without a WWII victory). Time for people in other countries to do the same what? War? More natives killing? A good product or a good idea will surface tomorrow eventually. But men being men will go where the money/food is today, no excuses needed. In fact no killing of natives needed either, so what's holding you back really?