3 ms·

I don't like where Vue is headed and I really dislike some of their newer design decisions but as some other commenter in this thread also stated, them having d

I don't like where Vue is headed and I really dislike some of their newer design decisions but as some other commenter in this thread also stated, them having different opinions does not mean that they think the subject at hand is lower priority.

lwansbrough 2y ago
If your opinion differs significantly from the majority of your users, DX is either low priority or you’re wrong.
- lloydatkinson 2y ago
  This is what I was getting at. The 2 to 3 migration and steam rolling over any raised concerns on GitHub while concurrently abandoning Vuex and Vue CLI for alternatives definitely does not even begin to meet minimal DX commitments.
  - bazoom42 2y ago
    Pinia have a far better DX than Vuex though. Vuex had a lot of boilerplate and “stringly-typed” actions. Of course the migration in itself have a cost. Vite is so great it is getting adopted by other frameworks. (It is not tightly coupled to Vue)
    - lloydatkinson 2y ago
      There was absolutely no reason Pinia couldn’t have been Vuex 5. I raised that point more than once and was always given the lamest reason for it. They believed people would be “too confused” with the breaking changes in the new API. This was always a dumb explanation. That’s what major versions are for - breaking changes. Of course upgrading from Vuex 4 to 5 would involve refactoring code. Pinia is of course mush better and has real types. But they did themselves a huge disservice by not making that Vuex 5. That lack of focus on cohesive framework options and senseless deprecation of already established libraries is the major problem.
      - bazoom42 2y ago
        So you are just angry they changed the name?
        lloydatkinson 2y ago
        If you’re going to just be reductionist in the entire thread I’m not going to engage with you further. Oh great projection by the way. Not sure who’s angry here but I can tell I’ve hit a nerve. Guess you work on Vue.
        bazoom42 2y ago
        Sorry for being reductionist. I will try to do better. But you literaly say you are happy with the API changes from Vuex to Pinia, so it is unclear to me what you dislike apart from the name change? I don’t work on Vue itself and cant speak for that team. I’m a developer who use both Vue and React daily and seem to be an exception in that I rather like both, while recognizing both have different strengths and weaknesses (I have also tried other frameworks like Angular which i didn’t like).
- bazoom42 2y ago
  There is obviously some self-selection going on since people disagreeing with the DX direction will migrate away. But do you have any basis for beliving the majority disagree with the direction? I vastly prefer Vue 3 setup, but I have no idea if I’m in the minority.
  - patates 2y ago
    Selection bias is a great point! But also it needs to be said that improving DX (or UX, when we are at that) is not about pleasing the majority. It's about the experience for our target audience, which doesn't have to be the majority. I can also care about design, while my choices look ugly for most people.
- sensanaty 2y ago
  I mean, where are you getting "the majority" from? At least for myself and my company, we're heavily invested in Vue and we love CompAPI. Most people I interact with in the Vue 3 community also seem to like it with some niggles here and there (like the oft-misunderstood `.value`). During the transition from 2 -> 3 it was a bit messy and I was even against the CompAPI originally, but after having actually used it in our app, it's miles better IMO. I understand all the pro-Options arguments and don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the criticisms about CompAPI, either. OptionsAPI still exists, and probably always will, since it's already and always was an extra layer built on top of the underlying CompAPI, which itself was exposed publicly in Vue 3.

lwansbrough 2y ago

If your opinion differs significantly from the majority of your users, DX is either low priority or you’re wrong.

lloydatkinson 2y ago
This is what I was getting at. The 2 to 3 migration and steam rolling over any raised concerns on GitHub while concurrently abandoning Vuex and Vue CLI for alternatives definitely does not even begin to meet minimal DX commitments.
- bazoom42 2y ago
  Pinia have a far better DX than Vuex though. Vuex had a lot of boilerplate and “stringly-typed” actions. Of course the migration in itself have a cost. Vite is so great it is getting adopted by other frameworks. (It is not tightly coupled to Vue)
  - lloydatkinson 2y ago
    There was absolutely no reason Pinia couldn’t have been Vuex 5. I raised that point more than once and was always given the lamest reason for it. They believed people would be “too confused” with the breaking changes in the new API. This was always a dumb explanation. That’s what major versions are for - breaking changes. Of course upgrading from Vuex 4 to 5 would involve refactoring code. Pinia is of course mush better and has real types. But they did themselves a huge disservice by not making that Vuex 5. That lack of focus on cohesive framework options and senseless deprecation of already established libraries is the major problem.
    - bazoom42 2y ago
      So you are just angry they changed the name?
      - lloydatkinson 2y ago
        If you’re going to just be reductionist in the entire thread I’m not going to engage with you further. Oh great projection by the way. Not sure who’s angry here but I can tell I’ve hit a nerve. Guess you work on Vue.
        bazoom42 2y ago
        Sorry for being reductionist. I will try to do better. But you literaly say you are happy with the API changes from Vuex to Pinia, so it is unclear to me what you dislike apart from the name change? I don’t work on Vue itself and cant speak for that team. I’m a developer who use both Vue and React daily and seem to be an exception in that I rather like both, while recognizing both have different strengths and weaknesses (I have also tried other frameworks like Angular which i didn’t like).
bazoom42 2y ago
There is obviously some self-selection going on since people disagreeing with the DX direction will migrate away. But do you have any basis for beliving the majority disagree with the direction? I vastly prefer Vue 3 setup, but I have no idea if I’m in the minority.
- patates 2y ago
  Selection bias is a great point! But also it needs to be said that improving DX (or UX, when we are at that) is not about pleasing the majority. It's about the experience for our target audience, which doesn't have to be the majority. I can also care about design, while my choices look ugly for most people.
sensanaty 2y ago
I mean, where are you getting "the majority" from? At least for myself and my company, we're heavily invested in Vue and we love CompAPI. Most people I interact with in the Vue 3 community also seem to like it with some niggles here and there (like the oft-misunderstood `.value`). During the transition from 2 -> 3 it was a bit messy and I was even against the CompAPI originally, but after having actually used it in our app, it's miles better IMO. I understand all the pro-Options arguments and don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the criticisms about CompAPI, either. OptionsAPI still exists, and probably always will, since it's already and always was an extra layer built on top of the underlying CompAPI, which itself was exposed publicly in Vue 3.