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I raised the same concerns multiple times (there was a whole drama thread on GitHub issues at the time) about all of this and it’s clear that the Vue team don’t

I raised the same concerns multiple times (there was a whole drama thread on GitHub issues at the time) about all of this and it’s clear that the Vue team don’t really care about developer experience or keeping consistent APIs. If they were going to poorly clone react hooks api then I decided it wasn’t worth my time sticking to the niche framework and went back to react which I now really enjoy. That and the bad TS support and broken dev tooling for years and the endless deprecated and abandoned tools like Vue CLI replaced by Vite and Vuex replaced by Pinia just highlighted the absurdity of trying to continue using Vue. Also, JSX/TSX is clearly a superior approach with its vast ecosystem of support. Vue can use TSX but good luck with its single docs page and GitHub issues about it open since 2021.

bazoom42 2y ago
> the Vue team don’t really care about developer experience This is how you stir up drama instead of constructive discussions. Clearly the team do care quite a lot about developer experience, but they might have different ideals and goals than you do. So lets discuss those differences as adults.
- lloydatkinson 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - bazoom42 2y ago
    Vue is all about developer experience. It is a framework! But you can’t make everyone happy which is why there are multiple frameworks. If React makes you happy, good for you. Vue made different trade-offs in order to achieve a different DX. Looking into the different trade-offs is interesting.
  - Muromec 2y ago
    "Our highly educated and well ret... regarded colleges from a different department have different priorities that do not seem to contribute to our shared goal as defined by the Policy which our dear leadership bless us with" (finishes writing and takes 1h lunch break)
  - patates 2y ago
    I don't like where Vue is headed and I really dislike some of their newer design decisions but as some other commenter in this thread also stated, them having different opinions does not mean that they think the subject at hand is lower priority.
    - lwansbrough 2y ago
      If your opinion differs significantly from the majority of your users, DX is either low priority or you’re wrong.
      - lloydatkinson 2y ago
        This is what I was getting at. The 2 to 3 migration and steam rolling over any raised concerns on GitHub while concurrently abandoning Vuex and Vue CLI for alternatives definitely does not even begin to meet minimal DX commitments.
        bazoom42 2y ago
        Pinia have a far better DX than Vuex though. Vuex had a lot of boilerplate and “stringly-typed” actions. Of course the migration in itself have a cost. Vite is so great it is getting adopted by other frameworks. (It is not tightly coupled to Vue)
        lloydatkinson 2y ago
        There was absolutely no reason Pinia couldn’t have been Vuex 5. I raised that point more than once and was always given the lamest reason for it. They believed people would be “too confused” with the breaking changes in the new API. This was always a dumb explanation. That’s what major versions are for - breaking changes. Of course upgrading from Vuex 4 to 5 would involve refactoring code. Pinia is of course mush better and has real types. But they did themselves a huge disservice by not making that Vuex 5. That lack of focus on cohesive framework options and senseless deprecation of already established libraries is the major problem.

bazoom42 2y ago

> the Vue team don’t really care about developer experience This is how you stir up drama instead of constructive discussions. Clearly the team do care quite a lot about developer experience, but they might have different ideals and goals than you do. So lets discuss those differences as adults.

lloydatkinson 2y ago
[flagged]
- bazoom42 2y ago
  Vue is all about developer experience. It is a framework! But you can’t make everyone happy which is why there are multiple frameworks. If React makes you happy, good for you. Vue made different trade-offs in order to achieve a different DX. Looking into the different trade-offs is interesting.
- Muromec 2y ago
  "Our highly educated and well ret... regarded colleges from a different department have different priorities that do not seem to contribute to our shared goal as defined by the Policy which our dear leadership bless us with" (finishes writing and takes 1h lunch break)
- patates 2y ago
  I don't like where Vue is headed and I really dislike some of their newer design decisions but as some other commenter in this thread also stated, them having different opinions does not mean that they think the subject at hand is lower priority.
  - lwansbrough 2y ago
    If your opinion differs significantly from the majority of your users, DX is either low priority or you’re wrong.
    - lloydatkinson 2y ago
      This is what I was getting at. The 2 to 3 migration and steam rolling over any raised concerns on GitHub while concurrently abandoning Vuex and Vue CLI for alternatives definitely does not even begin to meet minimal DX commitments.
      - bazoom42 2y ago
        Pinia have a far better DX than Vuex though. Vuex had a lot of boilerplate and “stringly-typed” actions. Of course the migration in itself have a cost. Vite is so great it is getting adopted by other frameworks. (It is not tightly coupled to Vue)
        lloydatkinson 2y ago
        There was absolutely no reason Pinia couldn’t have been Vuex 5. I raised that point more than once and was always given the lamest reason for it. They believed people would be “too confused” with the breaking changes in the new API. This was always a dumb explanation. That’s what major versions are for - breaking changes. Of course upgrading from Vuex 4 to 5 would involve refactoring code. Pinia is of course mush better and has real types. But they did themselves a huge disservice by not making that Vuex 5. That lack of focus on cohesive framework options and senseless deprecation of already established libraries is the major problem.