3 ms·

> Sounds like the Navy needs to provide better wifi before people get desperate like this and screw up their electronic warfare "Desperate" is a strong word. T

by pdpi 2y ago

> Sounds like the Navy needs to provide better wifi before people get desperate like this and screw up their electronic warfare "Desperate" is a strong word. The point is that there should be no wifi at all during these deployments, and there are reasonable operational security reasons for that ban. This isn't a "fix" to a problem, it's directly disobeying an order.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Navy already can’t meet their enlisted recruiting [1] and civilian mariner [2] targets. Operational security is a consideration, but unmanned vessels don’t sail and project force. As stevetodd’s link mentions downthread, the Navy is procuring StarLink officially (likely as part of StarShield, their DoD product with milspec satellites and full DoD ownership and control [3]); peel off some bandwidth for the humans if you expect them to show up to the job. They’ll easily find a better job in the current labor macro otherwise [4]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39169676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39169676 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41331066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41331066 [3] https://spacenews.com/pentagon-embracing-spacexs-starshield-for-future-military-satcom/ https://spacenews.com/pentagon-embracing-spacexs-starshield-... [4] https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/3616786/dod-addresses-recruiting-shortfall-challenges/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/36...
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  How about a huge collection of offline digital medias and an Intranet that connects the sailors on the ship? That might help a bit?
  - knowitnone 2y ago
    that solves 1 of the three content types. the other two are "check sports scores, text home" which an intranet would not solve.
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      I'd assume "text home" is the one that's explicitly against the rules no matter the method.
  - miki123211 2y ago
    Most media that your average person is interested in can't legally be obtained for offline consumption. Your average techie can get around that by using Jellyfin, Sonarr/Radarr, Torrent trackers and such, but the military has to follow the law. THe fact that ships travel around the world doesn't make this easier. Even if the Pentagon could make a deal with most of the major U.S. streaming services to provide their content to the military in a secure, offline fashion, which they probably could, those companies are often prohibited from distributing that content outside U.S. borders due to exclusivity agreements.
    - eNV25 2y ago
      I was on a ferry from Barcelona to Mallorca. They had a movies, magazines and newspapers on what looks like an intranet app. It probably works the same way an airplane's in-flight entertainment. The US Navy could have their own version of that.
    - markus_zhang 2y ago
      Man I thought the companies that hold legal rights of those medias (movies and shows and games) have some special deals with the army. They should!
    - friendlyHornet 2y ago
      But how can airlines have almost every movie, TV Show and music album on their airplanes? I recently flew on long flight with Qatar Airways and their library is massive. Almost any movie, show or album I could think of was in there
    - lxgr 2y ago
      Why wouldn't it be possible to individually pre-purchase media before deployment? Purchased (i.e. not rented) media on at least iTunes/Apple TV/Apple Music/Kindle etc. are usable offline indefinitely.
shiroiushi 2y ago
>The point is that there should be no wifi at all during these deployments You seriously expect a bunch of ~20-year-old people to go without internet access for 6-9 months at a time? Good luck with recruiting.
- pests 2y ago
  Yes? These people are supposed to go fight wars for us and defend our freedom... I would expect them to be making a lot of sacrifices, the lack of Internet being a relatively minor one.
  - killjoywashere 2y ago
    How many sacrifices would you make for $30,000 a year?
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      The current bonus for Air GUARD is $50k. Your 30k is way off not to mention GI Bill and VA coverage for life. And yes, I expect “oh gosh we might not have internet” to be something the military can handle.
      - pseudo0 2y ago
        $50k on a four year contract. That extra $12.5k helps, but the total comp is still way below a civilian job that typically has better work life balance and better working conditions.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - purpleidea 2y ago
        > GI Bill and VA coverage for life Yeah, sounds good until you see in practice how so many veterans are forgotten, let alone the millions without any healthcare at all. Healthcare should be a human right for everyone.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
I think what a lot of people are missing is that there is HUGE operational security issue with military using social media and the internet while deployed. The lack of general internet availability onboard ships is a feature, not a bug. There are a million and one ways that opsec failures could happen accidentally, let alone through malicious code, devices or people. Everyone I know who went to sea had a hard drive full of movies for trading around. There are plenty of ways to keep yourself entertained at sea. Leaking intel isn't a good one.
- diggernet 2y ago
  Not to mention the opsec failure of the starlink antenna continuously broadcasting the ship's location during its deployment.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    SAR sats capable of tracking ships (or even cars) have been around for decades.
WatchDog 2y ago
If the Navy provided a similar service, they could fully control the time and manner in which is used. Most of the time these ships are just floating around doing nothing particularly important or sensitive. The command could enable and disable internet access in response to operational security requirements, as part of regular exercises, or distribute access on the basis of some kind of reward or punishment.

by pdpi 2y ago

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Navy already can’t meet their enlisted recruiting [1] and civilian mariner [2] targets. Operational security is a consideration, but unmanned vessels don’t sail and project force. As stevetodd’s link mentions downthread, the Navy is procuring StarLink officially (likely as part of StarShield, their DoD product with milspec satellites and full DoD ownership and control [3]); peel off some bandwidth for the humans if you expect them to show up to the job. They’ll easily find a better job in the current labor macro otherwise [4]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39169676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39169676 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41331066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41331066 [3] https://spacenews.com/pentagon-embracing-spacexs-starshield-for-future-military-satcom/ https://spacenews.com/pentagon-embracing-spacexs-starshield-... [4] https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/3616786/dod-addresses-recruiting-shortfall-challenges/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/36...

markus_zhang 2y ago
How about a huge collection of offline digital medias and an Intranet that connects the sailors on the ship? That might help a bit?
- knowitnone 2y ago
  that solves 1 of the three content types. the other two are "check sports scores, text home" which an intranet would not solve.
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    I'd assume "text home" is the one that's explicitly against the rules no matter the method.
- miki123211 2y ago
  Most media that your average person is interested in can't legally be obtained for offline consumption. Your average techie can get around that by using Jellyfin, Sonarr/Radarr, Torrent trackers and such, but the military has to follow the law. THe fact that ships travel around the world doesn't make this easier. Even if the Pentagon could make a deal with most of the major U.S. streaming services to provide their content to the military in a secure, offline fashion, which they probably could, those companies are often prohibited from distributing that content outside U.S. borders due to exclusivity agreements.
  - eNV25 2y ago
    I was on a ferry from Barcelona to Mallorca. They had a movies, magazines and newspapers on what looks like an intranet app. It probably works the same way an airplane's in-flight entertainment. The US Navy could have their own version of that.
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    Man I thought the companies that hold legal rights of those medias (movies and shows and games) have some special deals with the army. They should!
  - friendlyHornet 2y ago
    But how can airlines have almost every movie, TV Show and music album on their airplanes? I recently flew on long flight with Qatar Airways and their library is massive. Almost any movie, show or album I could think of was in there
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Why wouldn't it be possible to individually pre-purchase media before deployment? Purchased (i.e. not rented) media on at least iTunes/Apple TV/Apple Music/Kindle etc. are usable offline indefinitely.

shiroiushi 2y ago

>The point is that there should be no wifi at all during these deployments You seriously expect a bunch of ~20-year-old people to go without internet access for 6-9 months at a time? Good luck with recruiting.

pests 2y ago
Yes? These people are supposed to go fight wars for us and defend our freedom... I would expect them to be making a lot of sacrifices, the lack of Internet being a relatively minor one.
- killjoywashere 2y ago
  How many sacrifices would you make for $30,000 a year?
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    The current bonus for Air GUARD is $50k. Your 30k is way off not to mention GI Bill and VA coverage for life. And yes, I expect “oh gosh we might not have internet” to be something the military can handle.
    - pseudo0 2y ago
      $50k on a four year contract. That extra $12.5k helps, but the total comp is still way below a civilian job that typically has better work life balance and better working conditions.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - purpleidea 2y ago
      > GI Bill and VA coverage for life Yeah, sounds good until you see in practice how so many veterans are forgotten, let alone the millions without any healthcare at all. Healthcare should be a human right for everyone.

dghlsakjg 2y ago

I think what a lot of people are missing is that there is HUGE operational security issue with military using social media and the internet while deployed. The lack of general internet availability onboard ships is a feature, not a bug. There are a million and one ways that opsec failures could happen accidentally, let alone through malicious code, devices or people. Everyone I know who went to sea had a hard drive full of movies for trading around. There are plenty of ways to keep yourself entertained at sea. Leaking intel isn't a good one.

diggernet 2y ago
Not to mention the opsec failure of the starlink antenna continuously broadcasting the ship's location during its deployment.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  SAR sats capable of tracking ships (or even cars) have been around for decades.

WatchDog 2y ago

If the Navy provided a similar service, they could fully control the time and manner in which is used. Most of the time these ships are just floating around doing nothing particularly important or sensitive. The command could enable and disable internet access in response to operational security requirements, as part of regular exercises, or distribute access on the basis of some kind of reward or punishment.