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> There is no value without labor. Yet wine is higher valued than grape juice. Value can clearly exist without labor.

• cylinder714 2y ago
  Winemaking requires far more resources, labor, skill and time than simple grape juice production.
  • Aloisius 2y ago
    Resources and time are, obviously, not labor. Turning commodity grape juice into commodity wine requires no appreciable extra labor compared to the required labor to prevent fermentation. The grape juice vs. wine is a rather classic counterexample, but it's hardly difficult to come up with any number of other examples of value absent labor.
  • fragmede 2y ago
    Winemaking uses far more, but does it really have to? Does the $10,000 bottle of wine really that much more labor in it to justify that price? or are value and labor only loosely related? If I get lucky and find some diamonds on the ground, have I labored a lot for the value of those diamonds on my patch of dirt compared to your patch of dirt. There's no value with absolutely zero labor, sure, but there's clearly a difference between a carpenter making 100 chairs, and a programmer making 100 copies of a program they wrote.
  • sickofparadox 2y ago
    Grapes will naturally ferment themselves into wine over time, but grape juice essentially did not exist until the industrial revolution because we needed methods to prevent the fermentation. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape_juice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape_juice