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Do you think this is how it's always been in China or do you think this is a response to how their attitudes towards children have changed? The US tends to hav

by bumby 2y ago

Do you think this is how it's always been in China or do you think this is a response to how their attitudes towards children have changed? The US tends to have a very individualistic outlook compared to many other societies, so I think differences should be expected to differ from culture to culture. In the US, it would make me very uncomfortable to have keep my child in a movie theater making noises if I felt like it was inhibiting on someone else's enjoyment of a movie, for instance.

em-bee 2y ago
i believe it has been like that all the time, because in the times without insurance and pensions children where the ones who cared for you when you get old and so people depended on their kids and it logically makes sense that they would show extreme care for them growing up. (this also reflects in the attitude of future grandparents who to this day push their children to get married and have kids. sometimes in extreme ways)
- bumby 2y ago
  >the times without insurance and pensions children where the ones who cared for you when you get old and so people depended on their kids and it logically makes sense that they would show extreme care for them growing up This has been the case for most agrarian economies, including the US in the past so I’m not sure that’s a good discriminator.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    that's a fair point. i haven't read anything about how children were treated in china in the past. i am more familiar with stories about treatment of children in historical europe. in short, in europe children were seen as a necessary nuisance (someone mentioned cattle) but from that i want to draw a few observations: i think attitude towards children in europe either has improved or it hasn't changed. if it hasn't changed, then why should it have changed in china? but even if it has improved, on one hand it is still way behind china by comparison, but on the other hand we stopped depending on direct children a few decades earlier than china, so if there was a parallel development then china would have to be a few decades behind europe with their changing attitude towards children. that being not the case suggests that there was no change in attitude at all, or at least not one prompted by a modern pension system and therefore the chinese attitude towards children could not be a new thing.
    - bumby 2y ago
      Even if they have changed, I seriously doubt you can distill something complex like societal interactions and norms down to a simple one-variable model like the introduction of pensions.
      - em-bee 2y ago
        right. another reason why i am skeptical that any change happened.
        bumby 2y ago
        Society norms definitely shift. My point is that that change is generally the result of a highly dynamic and complicated process, rather than pointing to a single cause.

by bumby 2y ago

em-bee 2y ago

i believe it has been like that all the time, because in the times without insurance and pensions children where the ones who cared for you when you get old and so people depended on their kids and it logically makes sense that they would show extreme care for them growing up. (this also reflects in the attitude of future grandparents who to this day push their children to get married and have kids. sometimes in extreme ways)

bumby 2y ago
>the times without insurance and pensions children where the ones who cared for you when you get old and so people depended on their kids and it logically makes sense that they would show extreme care for them growing up This has been the case for most agrarian economies, including the US in the past so I’m not sure that’s a good discriminator.
- em-bee 2y ago
  that's a fair point. i haven't read anything about how children were treated in china in the past. i am more familiar with stories about treatment of children in historical europe. in short, in europe children were seen as a necessary nuisance (someone mentioned cattle) but from that i want to draw a few observations: i think attitude towards children in europe either has improved or it hasn't changed. if it hasn't changed, then why should it have changed in china? but even if it has improved, on one hand it is still way behind china by comparison, but on the other hand we stopped depending on direct children a few decades earlier than china, so if there was a parallel development then china would have to be a few decades behind europe with their changing attitude towards children. that being not the case suggests that there was no change in attitude at all, or at least not one prompted by a modern pension system and therefore the chinese attitude towards children could not be a new thing.
  - bumby 2y ago
    Even if they have changed, I seriously doubt you can distill something complex like societal interactions and norms down to a simple one-variable model like the introduction of pensions.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      right. another reason why i am skeptical that any change happened.
      - bumby 2y ago
        Society norms definitely shift. My point is that that change is generally the result of a highly dynamic and complicated process, rather than pointing to a single cause.