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It is almost always "child free" people that are massively disturbed by even the quietest child noises. I can only speculate as to the (obvious) reasons for thi

It is almost always "child free" people that are massively disturbed by even the quietest child noises. I can only speculate as to the (obvious) reasons for this attitude which gives me some level of compassion and even sorrow for those people. You're being gaslit by most of the comments here but you're not imagining things - there's been a huge shift from an attitude of "children, even other peoples' children, are our future so it's reasonable to tolerate some noise from them" to "children are a dirty loud nuisance that must be stopped". Again, the reasons for this seem obvious to me but you're an asshole if you point them out explicity.

Atotalnoob 2y ago
What reasons are those? Humans are evolutionarily evolved to listen to babies. It makes even quiet noises annoying.
- Balgair 2y ago
  > Humans are evolutionarily evolved to listen to babies. It makes even quiet noises annoying. It's funny, once you have kiddos, you learn to be able to tell the type of crying they are doing. Some cries are really for attention that an adult needs to attend to right this second, some are just noise, and then there's everything in between. Once you're around infants enough, you kinda just tune out the less important crying, just like you would a fan or a car engine. But, it is a skill you learn, and can lose. So, parents of young children, I think, really can't see what the big deal is. They're skilled at tuning out the cries that aren't important.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> there's been a huge shift from an attitude of "children, even other peoples' children, are our future so it's reasonable to tolerate some noise from them" to "children are a dirty loud nuisance that must be stopped" Plenty of ancient civilisations treated children as glorified cattle. They weren’t expected to survive, so it wasn’t irrational. The notion of a babbling baby in the Roman Senate, a Victorian ball or Meiji Dai Shin’in is laughable. We are more considerate of babies and parents than we’ve probably ever been as a society. That’s a good thing. But it’s also regularly abused, as anyone who has been on a plane with a child screaming for their iPad knows.
- jellicle 2y ago
  What solution do you propose for the noisy child on a plane? Throw them out?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > What solution do you propose for the noisy child on a plane? Throw them out? Same things one does with a misbheaving adult. Note that I specifically mention kids screaming about iPads because I'm not judging parents of infants.
- Barrin92 2y ago
  > The notion of a babbling baby in the Roman Senate, a Victorian ball or Meiji Dai Shin’in is laughable. Yes because those institutions didn't have a lot of women or mothers in them, and the people participating in them had servants and slaves that took care of their progeny. I know the reality of the modern world hasn't reached everyone yet but we don't exclude mothers from public life any more so maybe the idea of having children in public bodies isn't that "laughable" any more.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > because those institutions didn't have a lot of women or mothers in them, and the people participating in them had servants and slaves that took care of their progeny Correct. I'm challenging the notion that we "tolerate[d] some noise from" children in the past. (Though even in matriarchal societies, e.g. the Haudenosaunee / Iroquois, I don't recall reading about children in the Long House where official business was conducted.) > the modern world hasn't reached everyone yet but we don't exclude mothers from public life any more so maybe the idea of having children in public bodies isn't that "laughable" any more Perhaps. But if we are to have that discussion, it has to be honest about that being novel.

Atotalnoob 2y ago

What reasons are those? Humans are evolutionarily evolved to listen to babies. It makes even quiet noises annoying.

Balgair 2y ago
> Humans are evolutionarily evolved to listen to babies. It makes even quiet noises annoying. It's funny, once you have kiddos, you learn to be able to tell the type of crying they are doing. Some cries are really for attention that an adult needs to attend to right this second, some are just noise, and then there's everything in between. Once you're around infants enough, you kinda just tune out the less important crying, just like you would a fan or a car engine. But, it is a skill you learn, and can lose. So, parents of young children, I think, really can't see what the big deal is. They're skilled at tuning out the cries that aren't important.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> there's been a huge shift from an attitude of "children, even other peoples' children, are our future so it's reasonable to tolerate some noise from them" to "children are a dirty loud nuisance that must be stopped" Plenty of ancient civilisations treated children as glorified cattle. They weren’t expected to survive, so it wasn’t irrational. The notion of a babbling baby in the Roman Senate, a Victorian ball or Meiji Dai Shin’in is laughable. We are more considerate of babies and parents than we’ve probably ever been as a society. That’s a good thing. But it’s also regularly abused, as anyone who has been on a plane with a child screaming for their iPad knows.

jellicle 2y ago
What solution do you propose for the noisy child on a plane? Throw them out?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > What solution do you propose for the noisy child on a plane? Throw them out? Same things one does with a misbheaving adult. Note that I specifically mention kids screaming about iPads because I'm not judging parents of infants.
Barrin92 2y ago
> The notion of a babbling baby in the Roman Senate, a Victorian ball or Meiji Dai Shin’in is laughable. Yes because those institutions didn't have a lot of women or mothers in them, and the people participating in them had servants and slaves that took care of their progeny. I know the reality of the modern world hasn't reached everyone yet but we don't exclude mothers from public life any more so maybe the idea of having children in public bodies isn't that "laughable" any more.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > because those institutions didn't have a lot of women or mothers in them, and the people participating in them had servants and slaves that took care of their progeny Correct. I'm challenging the notion that we "tolerate[d] some noise from" children in the past. (Though even in matriarchal societies, e.g. the Haudenosaunee / Iroquois, I don't recall reading about children in the Long House where official business was conducted.) > the modern world hasn't reached everyone yet but we don't exclude mothers from public life any more so maybe the idea of having children in public bodies isn't that "laughable" any more Perhaps. But if we are to have that discussion, it has to be honest about that being novel.