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> I wish more environmentalists would be excited about engineering solving environmental ills and relied less on knee-jerk reactions. Are many ... not? Seems l

> I wish more environmentalists would be excited about engineering solving environmental ills and relied less on knee-jerk reactions. Are many ... not? Seems like a weird complaint, I haven't encountered an "environmentalist" (whatever that even is) that is against landfills in general or the engineering of it. I'd rather we didn't produce as much garbage as we are and I hate that our city makes me wrap my garbage in more garbage otherwise they won't pick it up. But I still find the engineering impressive.

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Iulioh 2y ago
Probably OP is thinking of NIMBYs.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  OP is thinking of people who bumper sticker "Believe Science" but never took science beyond grade school or a required "science for poets" class. People who think "chemicals are bad, but organic is good". These are not bad people, but they don't know what they're talking about enough to form their own opinions, but they don't know that.
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    That would be quite the strawman but whatever works for them.
    - x-complexity 2y ago
      > That would be quite the strawman but whatever works for them. These types of people exist, and in worryingly large numbers.
      - eru 2y ago
        See also the German 'Green' party whose policies have led to lots and lots more CO2 emissions over the years.
        kergonath 2y ago
        Also, Greenpeace energy selling organic gas. That’s is very funny until you realise that 1) they are serious, and 2) they vote.
        barbazoo 2y ago
        Do you mean "renewable" gas? https://green-planet-energy.de/privatkunden/prowindgas https://green-planet-energy.de/privatkunden/prowindgas I can't find anything about "organic" gas, maybe your auto translate did a wrong thing?!
        kergonath 2y ago
        Sorry, it was vegan gas, not organic. They stopped labelling it that way, obviously, after being thoroughly ridiculed. It’s difficult to find references to it now, but some articles from that time (2020-2022 I think) remain, e.g. https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/decouple/greenpeace-selling-vegan-cqyU9KW2YRN/ https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/decouple/greenpeace-sel... There might be some traces of it in the Internet archive. [edit] there are traces here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210209184343/http://www.greenpeace-energy.de/privatkunden/oekogas/unser-windgas-im-detail.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210209184343/http://www.greenp... It was prominently on their home page at some point, but I could not find it. I should have saved it.
        aziaziazi 2y ago
        I get why people laught at it but let’s not forget anaerobic digestion reactors do produce methane from manure and last centuries oleoindustrie was using tons of cetacean fat, so vegan gaz is not litterally meaningless.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Do you have a specific connection between landfills and NIMBYs, or are you just generally interested in NIMBYs in the abstract? As a rule we try to avoid putting landfills anywhere near someone's backyard, so it's not your usual hot topic for the zoning committee.
bko 2y ago
Search google news "environmentalist landfill" and find me one article praising the ingenuity of landfills https://news.google.com/search?q=environmentalist+landfills&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en https://news.google.com/search?q=environmentalist+landfills&... Here's one from 3 days ago. Garbage Lasagna’: Dumps Are a Big Driver of Warming, Study Says Don't gaslight me and tell me environmentalists applaud all solutions to environmental issues equally. They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/climate/landfills-methane-emissions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/climate/landfills-methane...
- barbazoo 2y ago
  Studies researching the negative effects of landfills are the necessary first step in making them environmentally friendly. How else would we know what to do? Perhaps whatever you have in mind has to do with people's desire to keep more garbage out of the landfill in the first place? I don't know. > They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers. I don't know what that's referring to but where I live, the vast majority of recycling does not leave the province. So I can't really empathize with the example, I'm aware of the trope though. Perhaps this is one of the things that's much different in the US and less so in other places.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers. That's a side effect of (way too) lax regulations and the externalities of disposing of plastics not being paid for! Germany and a few other EU countries for example force any introducer of "recyclable" packaging to pay into a system to fund recycling stream collection, sorting and disposals ("Grüner Punkt" [1]). Yes, it's not perfect, way too much of our plastics waste still is exported to poor countries, but the ban on that is already law that will come into force in a few years [2]. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCner_Punkt https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCner_Punkt [2] https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/plastikmuell-eu-einigt-sich-auf-weitgehendes-exportverbot-a-ebb5af97-13e9-4d5f-871f-ec2ba9dab2bf https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/plastikmuell-eu-einigt-sic...

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Iulioh 2y ago

Probably OP is thinking of NIMBYs.

fsckboy 2y ago
OP is thinking of people who bumper sticker "Believe Science" but never took science beyond grade school or a required "science for poets" class. People who think "chemicals are bad, but organic is good". These are not bad people, but they don't know what they're talking about enough to form their own opinions, but they don't know that.
- barbazoo 2y ago
  That would be quite the strawman but whatever works for them.
  - x-complexity 2y ago
    > That would be quite the strawman but whatever works for them. These types of people exist, and in worryingly large numbers.
    - eru 2y ago
      See also the German 'Green' party whose policies have led to lots and lots more CO2 emissions over the years.
      - kergonath 2y ago
        Also, Greenpeace energy selling organic gas. That’s is very funny until you realise that 1) they are serious, and 2) they vote.
        barbazoo 2y ago
        Do you mean "renewable" gas? https://green-planet-energy.de/privatkunden/prowindgas https://green-planet-energy.de/privatkunden/prowindgas I can't find anything about "organic" gas, maybe your auto translate did a wrong thing?!
        kergonath 2y ago
        Sorry, it was vegan gas, not organic. They stopped labelling it that way, obviously, after being thoroughly ridiculed. It’s difficult to find references to it now, but some articles from that time (2020-2022 I think) remain, e.g. https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/decouple/greenpeace-selling-vegan-cqyU9KW2YRN/ https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/decouple/greenpeace-sel... There might be some traces of it in the Internet archive. [edit] there are traces here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210209184343/http://www.greenpeace-energy.de/privatkunden/oekogas/unser-windgas-im-detail.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210209184343/http://www.greenp... It was prominently on their home page at some point, but I could not find it. I should have saved it.
        aziaziazi 2y ago
        I get why people laught at it but let’s not forget anaerobic digestion reactors do produce methane from manure and last centuries oleoindustrie was using tons of cetacean fat, so vegan gaz is not litterally meaningless.
lolinder 2y ago
Do you have a specific connection between landfills and NIMBYs, or are you just generally interested in NIMBYs in the abstract? As a rule we try to avoid putting landfills anywhere near someone's backyard, so it's not your usual hot topic for the zoning committee.

bko 2y ago

Search google news "environmentalist landfill" and find me one article praising the ingenuity of landfills https://news.google.com/search?q=environmentalist+landfills&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en https://news.google.com/search?q=environmentalist+landfills&... Here's one from 3 days ago. Garbage Lasagna’: Dumps Are a Big Driver of Warming, Study Says Don't gaslight me and tell me environmentalists applaud all solutions to environmental issues equally. They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/climate/landfills-methane-emissions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/climate/landfills-methane...

barbazoo 2y ago
Studies researching the negative effects of landfills are the necessary first step in making them environmentally friendly. How else would we know what to do? Perhaps whatever you have in mind has to do with people's desire to keep more garbage out of the landfill in the first place? I don't know. > They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers. I don't know what that's referring to but where I live, the vast majority of recycling does not leave the province. So I can't really empathize with the example, I'm aware of the trope though. Perhaps this is one of the things that's much different in the US and less so in other places.
mschuster91 2y ago
> They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers. That's a side effect of (way too) lax regulations and the externalities of disposing of plastics not being paid for! Germany and a few other EU countries for example force any introducer of "recyclable" packaging to pay into a system to fund recycling stream collection, sorting and disposals ("Grüner Punkt" [1]). Yes, it's not perfect, way too much of our plastics waste still is exported to poor countries, but the ban on that is already law that will come into force in a few years [2]. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCner_Punkt https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCner_Punkt [2] https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/plastikmuell-eu-einigt-sich-auf-weitgehendes-exportverbot-a-ebb5af97-13e9-4d5f-871f-ec2ba9dab2bf https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/plastikmuell-eu-einigt-sic...