4 ms·

Does not sound like they're issuing replacement devices.

by TavsiE9s 2y ago

cryptonector 2y ago
Yeah, I see no indication of that on their blog, and you can't flash the firmware.
- traceroute66 2y ago
  > and you can't flash the firmware. Not being able to flash the firmware is a feature, not a bug. :) Its the fundamental reason I won't buy NitroHSM because of the Rumsfelt unkown-unknowns about use of the firmware flash feature on NitroHSMs as a future exploit route.
  - cryptonector 2y ago
    > Not being able to flash the firmware is a feature, not a bug. :) Indeed, but I didn't say otherwise :)
  - wiktor-k 2y ago
    > Not being able to flash the firmware is a feature, not a bug. :) It is a feature only if they ship replacement devices in case of issues like this. If they don't and you're left with a broken device then I'd rather count it as a "bug".
rasse 2y ago
They really should. The recovery of the one secret the device is supposed to keep is catastrophic. Sure, the recovery itself might be an edge case, but Yubikey users buy the product to protect themselves from edge cases.
- TavsiE9s 2y ago
  IIRC the last time something similar happened they issued replacement devices... I'm a bit baffled that they're not offering a replacement programme.
  - traceroute66 2y ago
    > I'm a bit baffled that they're not offering a replacement programme. That was under the previous leadership when Stina Ehrensvärd was CEO. Now they've taken VC money[1], and more recently merged with a listed SPAC[2] I suspect replacement devices will never happen because, you know, shareholders come first. I wish Yubico had some serious competition, but sadly they don't. NitroHSM is not the same thing (plus has flashable firmware, which leads to potential security risks). Tilitis looks interesting, but its far from maturity. [1] https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-adds-new-round-of-investment-and-grows-board-of-directors/ https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-adds-new-round-of-investm... [2] https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-is-merging-with-acq-bure/ https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-is-merging-with-acq-bure/
    - baseballdork 2y ago
      > I wish Yubico had some serious competition, but sadly they don't. This likely wouldn’t qualify as “serious competition” but I have a few solokeys and they work fine for my use. https://solokeys.com/ https://solokeys.com/
      - koito17 2y ago
        I have used SoloKeys since v1. Currently own two v2 SoloKeys, and they "just work" for anything involving FIDO2. I specifically use them for storing SSH private keys and WebAuthn credentials. The key can be used on any device with a USB-C port (there is also a variant supporting NFC, but I don't have that variant) Despite being a bit careless with my keys (e.g. leaving them in a pocket and washing said clothing), they still work just fine. I highly recommend SoloKeys to anyone who wants to support open source hardware and firmware.
    - pxc 2y ago
      > I wish Yubico had some serious competition, but sadly they don't. NitroHSM is not the same thing What's not the same thing as what? There's no NitroHSM (Nitrokey has 2 different HSM-related products that are different kinds of things from each other, and neither is called that), and most Yubikeys aren't their special HSM devices.
excalibur 2y ago
I think it might be a tad early to say whether they will or not. This exploit doesn't even have a CVE yet.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- aebeppos 2y ago
  CVE-2024-45678
Retr0id 2y ago
I suppose I'm not a regular consumer, but I buy devices like these under the expectation that they will eventually succumb to practical low-cost attacks. I would be feeling a bit miffed if I bought one recently, though.
- traceroute66 2y ago
  > I would be feeling a bit miffed if I bought one recently, though. One ? How about corporates who recently bought a batch ? ;)
  - Retr0id 2y ago
    Well then it's a mere budget rounding error. But, the overall risk assessment shouldn't have been much different.
zxcvgm 2y ago
Yeah. That's what I came here to say too. Previously when their Yubikey 4's were found to be suceptible to the ROCA vulnerability [0], they issued replacements [1] for any customers who had affected devices. I had a few of those devices and they were replaced for free. I guess that's a disadvantage of having a non-upgradable firmware. They can't fix these devices that are already out in the field. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROCA_vulnerability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROCA_vulnerability [1] https://support.yubico.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021803580-Infineon-RSA-Key-Generation-Issue-Customer-Portal https://support.yubico.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021803580-In...
- jcranmer 2y ago
  As I understand it, the ROCA vulnerability is "the secrets generated by a YubiKey may be susceptible to classic cryptographic breaks", something along the level of "the cipher is inherently weak." This vulnerability, meanwhile, appears to be in the class of "if someone has physical access to your hardware token, and has access to some specialized (expensive) hardware to do side-channel analysis, they might be able to do side-channel on your hardware token." But if someone has physical access to the hardware token... I mean, at that point, most people would consider it compromised anyways and wouldn't expect security guarantees from that point.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Yes: the keys the Y4 tokens generated were susceptible to attacks; here, it's the device itself.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Does not sound like they're issuing replacement devices.

cryptonector 2y ago

Yeah, I see no indication of that on their blog, and you can't flash the firmware.

traceroute66 2y ago
> and you can't flash the firmware. Not being able to flash the firmware is a feature, not a bug. :) Its the fundamental reason I won't buy NitroHSM because of the Rumsfelt unkown-unknowns about use of the firmware flash feature on NitroHSMs as a future exploit route.
- cryptonector 2y ago
  > Not being able to flash the firmware is a feature, not a bug. :) Indeed, but I didn't say otherwise :)
- wiktor-k 2y ago
  > Not being able to flash the firmware is a feature, not a bug. :) It is a feature only if they ship replacement devices in case of issues like this. If they don't and you're left with a broken device then I'd rather count it as a "bug".

rasse 2y ago

They really should. The recovery of the one secret the device is supposed to keep is catastrophic. Sure, the recovery itself might be an edge case, but Yubikey users buy the product to protect themselves from edge cases.

TavsiE9s 2y ago
IIRC the last time something similar happened they issued replacement devices... I'm a bit baffled that they're not offering a replacement programme.
- traceroute66 2y ago
  > I'm a bit baffled that they're not offering a replacement programme. That was under the previous leadership when Stina Ehrensvärd was CEO. Now they've taken VC money[1], and more recently merged with a listed SPAC[2] I suspect replacement devices will never happen because, you know, shareholders come first. I wish Yubico had some serious competition, but sadly they don't. NitroHSM is not the same thing (plus has flashable firmware, which leads to potential security risks). Tilitis looks interesting, but its far from maturity. [1] https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-adds-new-round-of-investment-and-grows-board-of-directors/ https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-adds-new-round-of-investm... [2] https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-is-merging-with-acq-bure/ https://www.yubico.com/blog/yubico-is-merging-with-acq-bure/
  - baseballdork 2y ago
    > I wish Yubico had some serious competition, but sadly they don't. This likely wouldn’t qualify as “serious competition” but I have a few solokeys and they work fine for my use. https://solokeys.com/ https://solokeys.com/
    - koito17 2y ago
      I have used SoloKeys since v1. Currently own two v2 SoloKeys, and they "just work" for anything involving FIDO2. I specifically use them for storing SSH private keys and WebAuthn credentials. The key can be used on any device with a USB-C port (there is also a variant supporting NFC, but I don't have that variant) Despite being a bit careless with my keys (e.g. leaving them in a pocket and washing said clothing), they still work just fine. I highly recommend SoloKeys to anyone who wants to support open source hardware and firmware.
  - pxc 2y ago
    > I wish Yubico had some serious competition, but sadly they don't. NitroHSM is not the same thing What's not the same thing as what? There's no NitroHSM (Nitrokey has 2 different HSM-related products that are different kinds of things from each other, and neither is called that), and most Yubikeys aren't their special HSM devices.

excalibur 2y ago

I think it might be a tad early to say whether they will or not. This exploit doesn't even have a CVE yet.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aebeppos 2y ago
CVE-2024-45678

Retr0id 2y ago

I suppose I'm not a regular consumer, but I buy devices like these under the expectation that they will eventually succumb to practical low-cost attacks. I would be feeling a bit miffed if I bought one recently, though.

traceroute66 2y ago
> I would be feeling a bit miffed if I bought one recently, though. One ? How about corporates who recently bought a batch ? ;)
- Retr0id 2y ago
  Well then it's a mere budget rounding error. But, the overall risk assessment shouldn't have been much different.

zxcvgm 2y ago

Yeah. That's what I came here to say too. Previously when their Yubikey 4's were found to be suceptible to the ROCA vulnerability [0], they issued replacements [1] for any customers who had affected devices. I had a few of those devices and they were replaced for free. I guess that's a disadvantage of having a non-upgradable firmware. They can't fix these devices that are already out in the field. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROCA_vulnerability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROCA_vulnerability [1] https://support.yubico.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021803580-Infineon-RSA-Key-Generation-Issue-Customer-Portal https://support.yubico.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021803580-In...

jcranmer 2y ago
As I understand it, the ROCA vulnerability is "the secrets generated by a YubiKey may be susceptible to classic cryptographic breaks", something along the level of "the cipher is inherently weak." This vulnerability, meanwhile, appears to be in the class of "if someone has physical access to your hardware token, and has access to some specialized (expensive) hardware to do side-channel analysis, they might be able to do side-channel on your hardware token." But if someone has physical access to the hardware token... I mean, at that point, most people would consider it compromised anyways and wouldn't expect security guarantees from that point.
- tptacek 2y ago
  Yes: the keys the Y4 tokens generated were susceptible to attacks; here, it's the device itself.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]