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Or, you could stop beating yourself up about it and reframe the whole activity as a creative release. Nobody else cares if you finish it, why should you? My nei

Or, you could stop beating yourself up about it and reframe the whole activity as a creative release. Nobody else cares if you finish it, why should you? My neighbor died with a project car parked in his driveway. It had been there for years. Every so often he got out there and worked on it with his grandson. Who among us would call that time wasted? Why not dust off Project Foo on a Saturday afternoon, and just tinker with the fun parts?

A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
<< Who among us would call that time wasted? I will admit that the longer I live, the more I realize this is one of the few things that actually matter. << Why not dust off Project Foo on a Saturday afternoon, and just tinker with the fun parts? I think it is a good way to avoid burnout. I don't know if it is the same for everyone, but if something like that is planned for me, I get kinda bored fast and 9/10 abandon the project. When I am really into it, the plan doesn't matter, because it mostly just flows. I am trying to trick myself into the state of flow, but maybe I am simply trying too hard.
pickledoyster 2y ago
Yeah, setting deadlines for a hobby is how I used to kill any joy I'd get from the hobby.
metacritic12 2y ago
That's a good way of framing the project. Especially if what the article author says is true: which is that most of the energy comes from brainstorming and fantasizing about what the project could be. The flip side is that you have to really buy into the activity as creative release -- and be OK not finishing when you start. For some people, their subconscious gets excited during the brainstorming phase most when they have a justified knowledge that they will likely finish the project. If these people start a project knowing they won't finish, it can take a lot away from the excitment of doing a project. The article's author probably falls into the latter camp.
packetlost 2y ago
> Or, you could stop beating yourself up about it and reframe the whole activity as a creative release. I think for some people this isn't better. If I feel like I'm not being productive in some capacity, I get depressed. It would happen frequently to me over the summers between school semesters, and it happens to me now by the end of a 1-week vacation. It might sound like a burnout path, but that's not what has historically lead me (personally) to burning out and I've been at this for like 10 years.
- yard2010 2y ago
  When I'm setting deadlines for myself, working fast to ship, making compromises due to time constraints I get depressed. When I'm working on a project for years and it has not yet shipped, I get depressed. Personally, I think the problem is not with each strategy, but with the context - time is money and money is time and I have pretty much none to spare.
  - packetlost 2y ago
    Yeah, context is definitely important. I also tend to work on projects that I personally find useful instead of trying to build products for other people, which probably plays heavily into it.
jckahn 2y ago
I like endless projects. Building something the way I want to build it is fun. Why would I ever want that to stop? I release updates to my various endless open source projects (such as https://www.farmhand.life/ https://www.farmhand.life/ and https://chitchatter.im/ https://chitchatter.im/) regularly to the public. They are "complete" in the sense that they are fully-formed enough to be worth playing/using. But they're not complete. They will never be complete. I don't want them to be complete. I want to build them for the rest of my life, because building them is what I love to do.
Foreignborn 2y ago
In this context, I would say *finishing things* is the actual creative release. The "not finishing" is getting in the way of it. (also, I highly doubtful that this is the author's one creative release, and and even more doubt he's coding up a project with his hypothetical grandson)
atoav 2y ago
Exactly. Unless you do it to earn money who gives a damn if you have a hundred draft projects? Who except yourself that is. Never finishing anything sucks, as it gives you the feeling that you.. well.. can't finish anything. My tip is to embrace the fact that a big part of what we start does not need to be finished. I sometimes code a way just for the joy of doing it, that is okay. Not only is it okay, it is also necessary to try out things and play around. Playing is a very good way to learn. And if you give yourself that slack for some projects it is easier to go all strick and I need this done on others. Other than that you need to ask yourself what blocks you from finishing things. E.g. a wise old audio mixing engineer once told me: a mix is never finished, you can always go back and optimize things, forever. Ultimately you need to say it is finished for it to be finished. Software can be similar. Many junior programmers will adjust the scope of their software as they build it and wonder that it never goes anywhere. my tip is to select a problem you profit from being solved. Make a realistic scope what the goal is and do it, so you can go back to your fun project. Boom you just got a thing done.
loughnane 2y ago
I agree with the conclusion, but using what other people care about as a standard for what you ought to care about is a path that leads straight to despair.
- sevensor 2y ago
  I meant that the obligation to finish is not externally imposed, so you don’t have to pursue completion out of a sense of duty. But I can see how you could read it the way you did, and it’s a fair point.
  - loughnane 2y ago
    Ah, I see. Got it.

A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago

<< Who among us would call that time wasted? I will admit that the longer I live, the more I realize this is one of the few things that actually matter. << Why not dust off Project Foo on a Saturday afternoon, and just tinker with the fun parts? I think it is a good way to avoid burnout. I don't know if it is the same for everyone, but if something like that is planned for me, I get kinda bored fast and 9/10 abandon the project. When I am really into it, the plan doesn't matter, because it mostly just flows. I am trying to trick myself into the state of flow, but maybe I am simply trying too hard.

pickledoyster 2y ago

Yeah, setting deadlines for a hobby is how I used to kill any joy I'd get from the hobby.

metacritic12 2y ago

That's a good way of framing the project. Especially if what the article author says is true: which is that most of the energy comes from brainstorming and fantasizing about what the project could be. The flip side is that you have to really buy into the activity as creative release -- and be OK not finishing when you start. For some people, their subconscious gets excited during the brainstorming phase most when they have a justified knowledge that they will likely finish the project. If these people start a project knowing they won't finish, it can take a lot away from the excitment of doing a project. The article's author probably falls into the latter camp.

packetlost 2y ago

> Or, you could stop beating yourself up about it and reframe the whole activity as a creative release. I think for some people this isn't better. If I feel like I'm not being productive in some capacity, I get depressed. It would happen frequently to me over the summers between school semesters, and it happens to me now by the end of a 1-week vacation. It might sound like a burnout path, but that's not what has historically lead me (personally) to burning out and I've been at this for like 10 years.

yard2010 2y ago
When I'm setting deadlines for myself, working fast to ship, making compromises due to time constraints I get depressed. When I'm working on a project for years and it has not yet shipped, I get depressed. Personally, I think the problem is not with each strategy, but with the context - time is money and money is time and I have pretty much none to spare.
- packetlost 2y ago
  Yeah, context is definitely important. I also tend to work on projects that I personally find useful instead of trying to build products for other people, which probably plays heavily into it.

jckahn 2y ago

I like endless projects. Building something the way I want to build it is fun. Why would I ever want that to stop? I release updates to my various endless open source projects (such as https://www.farmhand.life/ https://www.farmhand.life/ and https://chitchatter.im/ https://chitchatter.im/) regularly to the public. They are "complete" in the sense that they are fully-formed enough to be worth playing/using. But they're not complete. They will never be complete. I don't want them to be complete. I want to build them for the rest of my life, because building them is what I love to do.

Foreignborn 2y ago

In this context, I would say *finishing things* is the actual creative release. The "not finishing" is getting in the way of it. (also, I highly doubtful that this is the author's one creative release, and and even more doubt he's coding up a project with his hypothetical grandson)

atoav 2y ago

Exactly. Unless you do it to earn money who gives a damn if you have a hundred draft projects? Who except yourself that is. Never finishing anything sucks, as it gives you the feeling that you.. well.. can't finish anything. My tip is to embrace the fact that a big part of what we start does not need to be finished. I sometimes code a way just for the joy of doing it, that is okay. Not only is it okay, it is also necessary to try out things and play around. Playing is a very good way to learn. And if you give yourself that slack for some projects it is easier to go all strick and I need this done on others. Other than that you need to ask yourself what blocks you from finishing things. E.g. a wise old audio mixing engineer once told me: a mix is never finished, you can always go back and optimize things, forever. Ultimately you need to say it is finished for it to be finished. Software can be similar. Many junior programmers will adjust the scope of their software as they build it and wonder that it never goes anywhere. my tip is to select a problem you profit from being solved. Make a realistic scope what the goal is and do it, so you can go back to your fun project. Boom you just got a thing done.

loughnane 2y ago

I agree with the conclusion, but using what other people care about as a standard for what you ought to care about is a path that leads straight to despair.

sevensor 2y ago
I meant that the obligation to finish is not externally imposed, so you don’t have to pursue completion out of a sense of duty. But I can see how you could read it the way you did, and it’s a fair point.
- loughnane 2y ago
  Ah, I see. Got it.