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> Mental hospitals and other rehab facilities impose rigid structures and schedules on the residents So do schools. So does the military. Those are structures

> Mental hospitals and other rehab facilities impose rigid structures and schedules on the residents So do schools. So does the military. Those are structures of control. There are a variety of opinions pro and con on control and well-being. > But even agrarian societies clung to their timepieces Agriculture doesn't require timepieces. For thousands of years we farmed without them. Timepieces originated with religious practices, fwiw, as more control mechanisms. > I also find that I am a better worker when I can estimate how long a task will take, how much I can get done in a typical shift, and how to prioritize my time so that management is satisfied with my output and productivity. The "good little worker" who follows instructions, does everything on schedule, and exhibits small timed movements/tasks is an invention of the industrial revolution so that workers could be treated as controlled cogs in machines. Some people respond "well" to these control mechanisms. Some don't. They're all really recent changes in the way humans do things, though.

AStonesThrow 2y ago
You certainly have a negative attitude towards discipline and obedience. Yes, it can be described as "control" from the authority's viewpoint. Is this always bad and wrong? If control is manipulative, if it is oppressive, if it tramples on rights or freedoms and fails to serve the interests of the controls, then control is bad. But discipline and obedience to legitimate authorities are virtues. Discipline is what drives exploration and discovery. Timepieces were crucial in helping navigators find their way across the open seas. Perhaps Columbus was religiously controlled, perhaps Captain Cook was controlled by the British Empire, perhaps Magellan was controlled by his chain of command, but their ability to discern the structure of the natural world and subdue it was due to their discipline and the structure of their very small crews aboard isolated vessels. If you are not a "good little worker" aboard a ship, or in an Army unit, then you are dead and your battle is lost. Perhaps you conflate control with unity--whether it was Joshua instructing his troops to shout, or everyone showing up at Stonehenge on time for the fertility rituals, or Romeo and Juliet checking the time for a pre-arranged tryst, having people all do something at the same time is incredibly useful even for atheists and pagans. I don't know if freight and passenger trains are religiously controlled, but they're the ones who gave us modern timekeeping and as a consumer, I hope you'd agree that it's important that freight shipments are picked up and delivered according to a schedule, and if you had trouble getting pasta or toilet paper during COVID-19, then you were a victim of a lack of control in regards to the world's vital supply chains. If you are not a "good little worker" for your startup of 10 employees then you're bankrupt and you're unemployed and you're sitting around, posting on Hacker News instead of applying for jobs. I honestly do not see the trouble in doing the will of teachers in school or parents at home, provided that those leaders love their charges and want what's best for them. Many of them do, and it's important to recognize that "control" and discipline is usually oriented to the common good and even the individual's good.

AStonesThrow 2y ago

You certainly have a negative attitude towards discipline and obedience. Yes, it can be described as "control" from the authority's viewpoint. Is this always bad and wrong? If control is manipulative, if it is oppressive, if it tramples on rights or freedoms and fails to serve the interests of the controls, then control is bad. But discipline and obedience to legitimate authorities are virtues. Discipline is what drives exploration and discovery. Timepieces were crucial in helping navigators find their way across the open seas. Perhaps Columbus was religiously controlled, perhaps Captain Cook was controlled by the British Empire, perhaps Magellan was controlled by his chain of command, but their ability to discern the structure of the natural world and subdue it was due to their discipline and the structure of their very small crews aboard isolated vessels. If you are not a "good little worker" aboard a ship, or in an Army unit, then you are dead and your battle is lost. Perhaps you conflate control with unity--whether it was Joshua instructing his troops to shout, or everyone showing up at Stonehenge on time for the fertility rituals, or Romeo and Juliet checking the time for a pre-arranged tryst, having people all do something at the same time is incredibly useful even for atheists and pagans. I don't know if freight and passenger trains are religiously controlled, but they're the ones who gave us modern timekeeping and as a consumer, I hope you'd agree that it's important that freight shipments are picked up and delivered according to a schedule, and if you had trouble getting pasta or toilet paper during COVID-19, then you were a victim of a lack of control in regards to the world's vital supply chains. If you are not a "good little worker" for your startup of 10 employees then you're bankrupt and you're unemployed and you're sitting around, posting on Hacker News instead of applying for jobs. I honestly do not see the trouble in doing the will of teachers in school or parents at home, provided that those leaders love their charges and want what's best for them. Many of them do, and it's important to recognize that "control" and discipline is usually oriented to the common good and even the individual's good.