6 ms·

Amazon is trying to trick me into signing up for Prime services

mianos 2y ago
No kidding. Dark patterns: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/ftc-takes-action-against-amazon-enrolling-consumers-amazon-prime-without-consent-sabotaging-their https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/...
sidcool 2y ago
It's nothing new. Equally bad, but not new..
gagabity 2y ago
Yep, even for me who has never signed up its constant on every check out, no way to refuse permanently and they keep moving things around until one day I slip up.
- RoyalHenOil 2y ago
  I have accidentally signed up for Prime three times. Two of the times I realized it right away and immediately cancelled — but the third time, I just happened to notice several days later that I unexpectedly had access to Amazon Prime features. I never figured out how I signed up. I barely ever buy anything on Amazon anymore because it's become so obnoxious wading through the checkout process now — not to mention how hard it has become to search for products and how carefully I have to check for counterfeits. I only use it as a last resort now (for things I can't find anywhere else). I recently inherited a bunch of stock, and I immediately sold all the Amazon shares. I can't conceive what kind of longterm future this company could have on its present trajectory. Dark patterns and scammy sellers have the whiff of financial desperation.
phito 2y ago
In Europe, they have a different website for different countries: amazon.fr, amazon.de, etc... For a long time, they did not have one for my country, so I had to order from the other ones. After some time, I reviewed my subscriptions: I had 3 different active prime subscriptions for 3 different countries. I only ever signed up voluntary for one. I'm now down to 0.
- telesilla 2y ago
  How did prime help you in another country? I tried that because I get better prices in my neighbouring EU country but it won't ship to me with prime shipping.
  - phito 2y ago
    Maybe it doesn't work anymore. Used to buy from .fr and .de all the time before they introduced .com.be
    - Freak_NL 2y ago
      I still check both .de and .nl when Amazon is the only place to find something. The prices vary too much not to.
  - riffraff 2y ago
    I can confirm it doesn't help with shipping, but you still get the rest of the prime offer (video, ebooks etc) from the country where you signed up for, e.g. I get Italian prime video content abroad.
    - wiredfool 2y ago
      That pisses me off because you can't get prime video UK content in Ireland, even though the shipping works. You get some subset of it.
Gasp0de 2y ago
Amazon really is the worst. I feel like some of their practices are probably outright forbidden in the EU. They often offer me a one month free trial of Prime, which I accept. I then cancel the free trial immediately, so that I don't forget about it. To cancel, I have to go through multiple screens, and they suggest that I should cancel towards the end of my free month instead of now, even though it doesn't seem to make a difference (I still keep prime till the end of the month, even if I cancel right away).
- OptionOfT 2y ago
  Surprised they allow you to keep the remainder of the trial. Other companies cut you off the moment you disable the subscription, which shows that they basically bank on you forgetting about it. I recently started getting ads on NextDoor about this $19 cleaning of my home. When looking through the app you basically discover that they enroll you in a $49 / month subscription. So not only to they take a cut of the cleaning person you contract, they are rent-seekers behind the scenes.
- iLoveOncall 2y ago
  Oh yeah, really the worst, trying to retain a customer after offering them free service for a month! The outrage!
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    It's not just 'offered'. It's stuffed in your face at every opportunity like a Jehovah's witness you can't get rid of. They're also trying to trick you in signing up.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - pookybear223 2y ago
    I miss the times when retaining customers meant providing really good value and customer service. I think there was at least a time in which Amazon would’ve agreed. Maybe not…
cgio 2y ago
Guardian is also trying to trick me into "supporting" it with a full page pop up. Tongue in cheek as it's not the same, it is equally annoying but significantly less risky to my bank account balance.
sureglymop 2y ago
I've honestly never understood how amazon could become the go to site for ordering packages in the US. It's website is a mess, filled with dark patterns and confusions for the users. The design itself made me literally contemplate whether this is a scam the first time I tried to use it. Complete turn off. It's no wonder other delivery sites have beat them in different countries (e.g. Digitec in Switzerland, TakeALot in South Africa, etc.).
- lelanthran 2y ago
  Takealot beat Amazon in SA because Amazon was not in SA till a few months ago.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > I've honestly never understood how amazon could become the go to site for ordering packages in the US. Because for a loooong time in the Western world there were no competitors at all in the "online shopping" experience. There were mail delivery giants (e.g. German Quelle), some of them decades-long established - but they all completely and utterly missed online, and so did many brick-and-mortar retailers. They all thought people would trust a physical store more, e.g. against fraud, but online was/is so much cheaper that it doesn't matter in practice if you end up with fake products every once in a while. By the time they woke up, Amazon had already entrenched itself firmly as a one-stop-shop that offered fast (!) shipping and easy returns.
- riffraff 2y ago
  Cause Amazon was great. The website was simple to use when everything else was a mess. The support was perfect, you could get a refund in five minutes no questions asked, the delivery was reliable. Today's Amazon is not the same beast.
- thomassmith65 2y ago
  They were good once: simple website, authentic brandname products, good prices. Then they started allowing third party sellers. Then they abandoned the phase to just grow and break-even. Then they trotted out Prime and dark patterns. And now Amazon and its website are lucrative for Amazon but crap for customers.
navjack27 2y ago
In the USA if you collect SSI and or SNAP you can get prime for a discount AND I've noticed their process is less annoying/deceptive
thomassmith65 2y ago
Part of my internet hygiene is to close my Amazon account every year, and sign up again under different details (those that make sense). Around five years ago back there was a spate of articles about Amazon's 'surprisingly' bad security. Maybe they have improved lately, but I'd just as soon not have years of data stored under one live Amazon account. As for 'Prime', I assume it is a bad deal, solely based on how desperately Amazon pushes it. If a company like Amazon is this ridiculously aggressive for me to do something, there's no way I'm getting the long end of the stick.
- attendant3446 2y ago
  I do the same. Maybe not every year, but I am on my 5th Amazon account. But the last time I created one, I was immediately banned and asked to provide a lot of documents to confirm my identity. That's a bad sign.
- BizarroLand 2y ago
  I think Prime is a psychological system designed to make you buy more and pay for the privilege, and that most people would be significantly better off without it both financially and psychologically. Having Amazon Prime is like being on a diet and eating at an all you can eat buffet. If you can stick to your guns it is convenient having your food ready for you quick and easy (getting fast free shipping), but after a while you have to stop and ask yourself if you're not wasting that money on the food you're not eating and paying more for the buffet than you would for food that fits your diet (paying for $95/yr for "free" shipping if you don't use it.)
noitamroftuo 2y ago
If she continues to use Amazon it’s probably in her best interest to be a prime member. No point in cancelling if you continued to constantly use Amazon.
- mayneack 2y ago
  I use Amazon at a rate slightly under break even for prime. I don't have it because I want the extra friction to get fast shipping. If I had it, I'd use it more. Now it's just one of many places to shop online (one with low quality control).
- pm215 2y ago
  95 quid is a lot, given that one delivery costs you at most 5 quid, and usually you can avoid that by having your order be over 35 quid or over 10 quid of books to qualify for free standard delivery. So there's quite a wide range of Amazon use where Prime is more expensive than pay-for-delivery-as-you-go, and I think a lot of people will fall into that category rather than the other two options of "such a frequent user that Prime is worthwhile" and "doesn't use the site at all".
- robinsonrc 2y ago
  Curiously I find their delivery to be exactly as fast as it used to be for me when I did have Prime
- lariattra 2y ago
  Or you can just buy $35+ at a time, wait an extra day and not pay anything for prime. A crazy idea, I know.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    I find I get better delivery not being a Prime member. When I was using Prime, I would do their shipping, and the items would always be late. Now without it, I just choose the free shipping method, and things tend to show up a day early. Maybe just coincidence, but I've been much happier without it.
- 2y ago
ta1243 2y ago
I had no problem with paying whatever for prime (even with various price rises), until they added adverts. I cancelled, deleted the amazon app on my phone, and shifted my amazon spending elsewhere, so can't fall for dark patterns "The more you tighten your grip, the more will slip through your fingers"
postdoc74 2y ago
I believe they are so aggressive that they have broken their shopping cart code. For instance, as Prime subscriber I usually get at checkout preselected options that would be aimed at getting people subscribed. Like two separate boxes stating "Free delivery". Weird.
juliangmp 2y ago
I feel like the general issue here is that even when dark patterns like this are outlawed, who is going to go out of their way to file a lawsuit and take it to court?
beejiu 2y ago
Strange, I've always appreciated those £0.99 offers, and I suspect the vast majority of consumers do. It's pretty transparent and very easy to cancel, particularly in the UK.
- HyprMusic 2y ago
  You only get so many of those £0.99 offers before it goes up to £8 without making it clear. I just did a checkout to test and it says "Click here to get your Prime eligible items with Premium Delivery for £4.99 no extra charge". Yet clicking that button costs anywhere between £0.99 and £8 without any obvious warning.
spacecadet 2y ago
I love that this is news. The last couple years I have tried to minimize my Amazon spending while maximizing my f*cking with Amazon. Use all of the prime trials by saving up purchases until one is offered and then immediately cancelling Prime. Inverse Prime Day. I save up all of my returns for Prime Day, I call Amazon (1-888-280-4331) and get them to accept the return without requiring the items. These are legitimate returns, Im not that much a rat... but Im not mailing this garbage back.
willtemperley 2y ago
I don’t use or miss Amazon. The quality of the goods is poor and wading through hundreds of scammy sellers is tiring. Most high street stores have decent online experiences, fast delivery and some guarantee of quality. I think Amazon offering value is now a myth.
catlikesshrimp 2y ago
I suppose the only non preselected option to accept a charge is to type text in a box or draw in a dot matrix. A confirmation that requires following instructions. In an alternate universe, inserting your personal hardware token to accept recurring charges
_lvbh 2y ago
The solution is to use something like privacy.com or Revolut & simply freeze the card allocated for Amazon when you aren’t expecting payment. Unfreeze it only for a few seconds when you’re actually paying for something
wiether 2y ago
In France, Prime is 69.9€/year I'm not sure of what I get exactly from it, but I never have to pay for shipping, no matter what I order and where it's delivered (at home, in a Locker, in a post office...) But I also use my account to order for ~20 friends & relatives that don't want to have their own account and/or want to avoid shipping costs. The recent introduction of ad on Prime Video forced me to stop using it and torrent what I wanted to watch there. If they increased the subscription price, I would probably be forced to reconsider my relationship with the company ; but it would honestly require to be quite high given the ~150 orders I made with them each year.
more_corn 2y ago
Surely this is illegal. Didn’t the FTC fine them for it? How about daily fines till they stop? I’ll open the bidding at $10M /day

No kidding. Dark patterns: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/ftc-takes-action-against-amazon-enrolling-consumers-amazon-prime-without-consent-sabotaging-their https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/...

sidcool 2y ago

It's nothing new. Equally bad, but not new..

gagabity 2y ago

Yep, even for me who has never signed up its constant on every check out, no way to refuse permanently and they keep moving things around until one day I slip up.

RoyalHenOil 2y ago
I have accidentally signed up for Prime three times. Two of the times I realized it right away and immediately cancelled — but the third time, I just happened to notice several days later that I unexpectedly had access to Amazon Prime features. I never figured out how I signed up. I barely ever buy anything on Amazon anymore because it's become so obnoxious wading through the checkout process now — not to mention how hard it has become to search for products and how carefully I have to check for counterfeits. I only use it as a last resort now (for things I can't find anywhere else). I recently inherited a bunch of stock, and I immediately sold all the Amazon shares. I can't conceive what kind of longterm future this company could have on its present trajectory. Dark patterns and scammy sellers have the whiff of financial desperation.

phito 2y ago

In Europe, they have a different website for different countries: amazon.fr, amazon.de, etc... For a long time, they did not have one for my country, so I had to order from the other ones. After some time, I reviewed my subscriptions: I had 3 different active prime subscriptions for 3 different countries. I only ever signed up voluntary for one. I'm now down to 0.

telesilla 2y ago
How did prime help you in another country? I tried that because I get better prices in my neighbouring EU country but it won't ship to me with prime shipping.
- phito 2y ago
  Maybe it doesn't work anymore. Used to buy from .fr and .de all the time before they introduced .com.be
  - Freak_NL 2y ago
    I still check both .de and .nl when Amazon is the only place to find something. The prices vary too much not to.
- riffraff 2y ago
  I can confirm it doesn't help with shipping, but you still get the rest of the prime offer (video, ebooks etc) from the country where you signed up for, e.g. I get Italian prime video content abroad.
  - wiredfool 2y ago
    That pisses me off because you can't get prime video UK content in Ireland, even though the shipping works. You get some subset of it.

Gasp0de 2y ago

Amazon really is the worst. I feel like some of their practices are probably outright forbidden in the EU. They often offer me a one month free trial of Prime, which I accept. I then cancel the free trial immediately, so that I don't forget about it. To cancel, I have to go through multiple screens, and they suggest that I should cancel towards the end of my free month instead of now, even though it doesn't seem to make a difference (I still keep prime till the end of the month, even if I cancel right away).

OptionOfT 2y ago
Surprised they allow you to keep the remainder of the trial. Other companies cut you off the moment you disable the subscription, which shows that they basically bank on you forgetting about it. I recently started getting ads on NextDoor about this $19 cleaning of my home. When looking through the app you basically discover that they enroll you in a $49 / month subscription. So not only to they take a cut of the cleaning person you contract, they are rent-seekers behind the scenes.
iLoveOncall 2y ago
Oh yeah, really the worst, trying to retain a customer after offering them free service for a month! The outrage!
- wkat4242 2y ago
  It's not just 'offered'. It's stuffed in your face at every opportunity like a Jehovah's witness you can't get rid of. They're also trying to trick you in signing up.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- pookybear223 2y ago
  I miss the times when retaining customers meant providing really good value and customer service. I think there was at least a time in which Amazon would’ve agreed. Maybe not…

cgio 2y ago

Guardian is also trying to trick me into "supporting" it with a full page pop up. Tongue in cheek as it's not the same, it is equally annoying but significantly less risky to my bank account balance.

sureglymop 2y ago

I've honestly never understood how amazon could become the go to site for ordering packages in the US. It's website is a mess, filled with dark patterns and confusions for the users. The design itself made me literally contemplate whether this is a scam the first time I tried to use it. Complete turn off. It's no wonder other delivery sites have beat them in different countries (e.g. Digitec in Switzerland, TakeALot in South Africa, etc.).

lelanthran 2y ago
Takealot beat Amazon in SA because Amazon was not in SA till a few months ago.
mschuster91 2y ago
> I've honestly never understood how amazon could become the go to site for ordering packages in the US. Because for a loooong time in the Western world there were no competitors at all in the "online shopping" experience. There were mail delivery giants (e.g. German Quelle), some of them decades-long established - but they all completely and utterly missed online, and so did many brick-and-mortar retailers. They all thought people would trust a physical store more, e.g. against fraud, but online was/is so much cheaper that it doesn't matter in practice if you end up with fake products every once in a while. By the time they woke up, Amazon had already entrenched itself firmly as a one-stop-shop that offered fast (!) shipping and easy returns.
riffraff 2y ago
Cause Amazon was great. The website was simple to use when everything else was a mess. The support was perfect, you could get a refund in five minutes no questions asked, the delivery was reliable. Today's Amazon is not the same beast.
thomassmith65 2y ago
They were good once: simple website, authentic brandname products, good prices. Then they started allowing third party sellers. Then they abandoned the phase to just grow and break-even. Then they trotted out Prime and dark patterns. And now Amazon and its website are lucrative for Amazon but crap for customers.

navjack27 2y ago

In the USA if you collect SSI and or SNAP you can get prime for a discount AND I've noticed their process is less annoying/deceptive

thomassmith65 2y ago

Part of my internet hygiene is to close my Amazon account every year, and sign up again under different details (those that make sense). Around five years ago back there was a spate of articles about Amazon's 'surprisingly' bad security. Maybe they have improved lately, but I'd just as soon not have years of data stored under one live Amazon account. As for 'Prime', I assume it is a bad deal, solely based on how desperately Amazon pushes it. If a company like Amazon is this ridiculously aggressive for me to do something, there's no way I'm getting the long end of the stick.

attendant3446 2y ago
I do the same. Maybe not every year, but I am on my 5th Amazon account. But the last time I created one, I was immediately banned and asked to provide a lot of documents to confirm my identity. That's a bad sign.
BizarroLand 2y ago
I think Prime is a psychological system designed to make you buy more and pay for the privilege, and that most people would be significantly better off without it both financially and psychologically. Having Amazon Prime is like being on a diet and eating at an all you can eat buffet. If you can stick to your guns it is convenient having your food ready for you quick and easy (getting fast free shipping), but after a while you have to stop and ask yourself if you're not wasting that money on the food you're not eating and paying more for the buffet than you would for food that fits your diet (paying for $95/yr for "free" shipping if you don't use it.)

noitamroftuo 2y ago

If she continues to use Amazon it’s probably in her best interest to be a prime member. No point in cancelling if you continued to constantly use Amazon.

mayneack 2y ago
I use Amazon at a rate slightly under break even for prime. I don't have it because I want the extra friction to get fast shipping. If I had it, I'd use it more. Now it's just one of many places to shop online (one with low quality control).
pm215 2y ago
95 quid is a lot, given that one delivery costs you at most 5 quid, and usually you can avoid that by having your order be over 35 quid or over 10 quid of books to qualify for free standard delivery. So there's quite a wide range of Amazon use where Prime is more expensive than pay-for-delivery-as-you-go, and I think a lot of people will fall into that category rather than the other two options of "such a frequent user that Prime is worthwhile" and "doesn't use the site at all".
robinsonrc 2y ago
Curiously I find their delivery to be exactly as fast as it used to be for me when I did have Prime
lariattra 2y ago
Or you can just buy $35+ at a time, wait an extra day and not pay anything for prime. A crazy idea, I know.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  I find I get better delivery not being a Prime member. When I was using Prime, I would do their shipping, and the items would always be late. Now without it, I just choose the free shipping method, and things tend to show up a day early. Maybe just coincidence, but I've been much happier without it.
2y ago

ta1243 2y ago

I had no problem with paying whatever for prime (even with various price rises), until they added adverts. I cancelled, deleted the amazon app on my phone, and shifted my amazon spending elsewhere, so can't fall for dark patterns "The more you tighten your grip, the more will slip through your fingers"

postdoc74 2y ago

I believe they are so aggressive that they have broken their shopping cart code. For instance, as Prime subscriber I usually get at checkout preselected options that would be aimed at getting people subscribed. Like two separate boxes stating "Free delivery". Weird.

juliangmp 2y ago

I feel like the general issue here is that even when dark patterns like this are outlawed, who is going to go out of their way to file a lawsuit and take it to court?

beejiu 2y ago

Strange, I've always appreciated those £0.99 offers, and I suspect the vast majority of consumers do. It's pretty transparent and very easy to cancel, particularly in the UK.

HyprMusic 2y ago
You only get so many of those £0.99 offers before it goes up to £8 without making it clear. I just did a checkout to test and it says "Click here to get your Prime eligible items with Premium Delivery for £4.99 no extra charge". Yet clicking that button costs anywhere between £0.99 and £8 without any obvious warning.

spacecadet 2y ago

I love that this is news. The last couple years I have tried to minimize my Amazon spending while maximizing my f*cking with Amazon. Use all of the prime trials by saving up purchases until one is offered and then immediately cancelling Prime. Inverse Prime Day. I save up all of my returns for Prime Day, I call Amazon (1-888-280-4331) and get them to accept the return without requiring the items. These are legitimate returns, Im not that much a rat... but Im not mailing this garbage back.

willtemperley 2y ago

I don’t use or miss Amazon. The quality of the goods is poor and wading through hundreds of scammy sellers is tiring. Most high street stores have decent online experiences, fast delivery and some guarantee of quality. I think Amazon offering value is now a myth.

catlikesshrimp 2y ago

I suppose the only non preselected option to accept a charge is to type text in a box or draw in a dot matrix. A confirmation that requires following instructions. In an alternate universe, inserting your personal hardware token to accept recurring charges

_lvbh 2y ago

The solution is to use something like privacy.com or Revolut & simply freeze the card allocated for Amazon when you aren’t expecting payment. Unfreeze it only for a few seconds when you’re actually paying for something

wiether 2y ago

In France, Prime is 69.9€/year I'm not sure of what I get exactly from it, but I never have to pay for shipping, no matter what I order and where it's delivered (at home, in a Locker, in a post office...) But I also use my account to order for ~20 friends & relatives that don't want to have their own account and/or want to avoid shipping costs. The recent introduction of ad on Prime Video forced me to stop using it and torrent what I wanted to watch there. If they increased the subscription price, I would probably be forced to reconsider my relationship with the company ; but it would honestly require to be quite high given the ~150 orders I made with them each year.

more_corn 2y ago

Surely this is illegal. Didn’t the FTC fine them for it? How about daily fines till they stop? I’ll open the bidding at $10M /day