4 ms·

National Defense runs almost entirely on Windows workstations, including "high-side" or classified networks. I can't imagine the powers that be are too thrille

National Defense runs almost entirely on Windows workstations, including "high-side" or classified networks. I can't imagine the powers that be are too thrilled with this feature, and much like the Intel TPM High Assurance bit, I bet there's an undocumented way to remove it.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
Why wouldn't government customers want this feature, they're obsessed with collecting logs of what occurs on managed devices
- XorNot 2y ago
  Not if the data stays device local. Then it's a liability.
  - ARandomerDude 2y ago
    Give it time. I suspect step 1 is "don't worry, it's on your device." Step 2 will be "now it's in the cloud so you don't have to lose your Recall if you lose your computer."
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
Spivak 2y ago
The article is a bit of rage-bait. You can already disable it via Group Policy and users can turn it off. They're trying to get clicks because they're trying to make it seems like uninstalling it is some meaningful difference. If you don't trust that the settings on your computer work what in gods name are you using windows for.
- Smar 2y ago
  Microsoft has a history of re-enabling privacy violating settings after a while, so I would be concerned too.
- LeonB 2y ago
  > If you don't trust that the settings on your computer work what in gods name are you using windows for Most people don’t get any choice at all about what operating system they use. And those that do get a choice have extremely limited options.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  > If you don't trust that the settings on your computer work what in gods name are you using windows for. gaming and for sandboxes. It became obvious to me a while ago with the slow integration of ads where this was going, and that I could never treat windows as a serious work station, unfortunately. I don’t even do banking on windows machines anymore, and it sucks because I greatly prefer WSL 2 and windows tools for my work environment compared to something you typically see in a corporate setting like a Mac.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  I don't trust them not to turn it back on (as happens to all sorts of features after a Windows update), and continue to install garbage I don't need or even wanted. I'm happy on POP_OS! and I'm not going back. Been on POP since January 18th of this year. I gave up on Microsoft when I realized Windows Defender will send over files to Microsoft it thinks are suspicious, and there's 0 audit trail for the files. For all I know it could be just about anything personal or even proprietary company files. I had other reasons, but that one set me off as the final straw. The other one was not being able to make offline accounts by default from installation, without using hacks.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >I don't trust them not to turn it back on Microsoft respects Group Policy because enterprise uses Group Policy.
    - giancarlostoro 2y ago
      That is fair, I did not know that, I thought this was only respected if you were an enterprise licensed user, but that might be my misunderstanding. Even so, I've gotten so used to Linux, I can't go back. Whenever I use Windows I wind up missing Linux. The only thing holding me on Windows was games, but Steam's Proton has gotten insanely well.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        Group Policy is available in any version of Windows from Professional and up and doesn't require joining into a domain or a special license. A standalone Windows Professional install can effect Group Policy for itself and the policies thereof will be respected. Home also technically has Group Policy, but it's not supposed to and most workarounds to that effect are very janky.
    - croutonwagon 2y ago
      Thats not always true. Just today my team was investigating why windows updates didnt install on server 2016 despite deadlines and specific updates GPO's set. We did have some tweaks as an outcome. But overall these policies have been in place for years. And since 2012R2 and later there have been multiple instances where windows updates policies wont apply in lieu of say... "maintenance windows" features being added to windows, so it ignores policies centered around deadlines etc.
- shakna 2y ago
  The only officially supported way is disabling via Group Policy - but only for Enterprise systems. Whilst users can turn it off today, Microsoft's history and lack of straightforward responses, suggests that won't be the case tomorrow. Besides: Some of the concerns are that it can be utilised by people such as home abusers to track those who might be looking for help to leave that situation. It's a new, very powerful, avenue of control for people stuck there. Being able to opt-out does not fix that. They've created a new way for people to be harmed.
- arp242 2y ago
  I don't really use Windows, And just have a Windows VM I use for testing or compiling some things. The amount of effort I had to spend to turn off things like Search Indexer and Windows Defender is insane. You can disable things in the control panel but it's still not really disabled and you have to play tricks to really disable it somewhere else. And then sometimes it would come back on because ... reasons? I have zero faith that if I disable something (anything!) on Windows that 1) I've actually disabled it, and 2) that it will stay off. Current Windows is absolutely horrible giving any control over the internals – even more so than the old XP/7 systems were. Before my VM I hadn't touched Windows at all for more than ten years, and I was shocked just how difficult some of these things had become.
bongodongobob 2y ago
They've got their own version of Windows and licensing. They're not running Windows 10 Home lol. They've got their own LTSC type thing. DoD works directly with Microsoft. None of this applies to them.
- portn0y 2y ago
  [flagged]
- stackghost 2y ago
  I have worked in National Defense, held a security clearance, etc. and can confidently say you are mistaken. Microsoft is not maintaining a separate build of Windows for DoD. They may have bespoke licensing agreements and support contracts, but military and DoD workstations run regular windows.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    They are, however, maintaining a separate cloud, and parent is not mistaken; windows professional running under group policies is a different animal than windows home https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescriptions/office-365-platform-service-description/office-365-us-government/gcc-high-and-dod https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescripti... >> Subscriptions in the GCC High and DoD environments include the core Exchange Online, SharePoint, and Skype for Business features. Given the increased certification and accreditation of the infrastructure, there are some feature differences between the general commercial Office 365 offerings and those available in GCC High and DoD.
    - stackghost 2y ago
      I'm not going to get any further into it, but the only one who mentioned "windows home" was the other poster, in an attempt at reductio ad absurdum. Whether or not "windows professional with group policies" constitutes "their own version of windows" as per bongodongobob is left as an exercise to the reader.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
"National Defense runs almost entirely on Windows workstations, including "high-side" or classified networks." Windows is "military-grade". That's a laugh. In case of doubt I am referring to the US practice of marketing certain products as "military-grade". Perhaps to suggest something like, "If it is good enough for the military, then it is surely good enough for the civilian."
- webworker 2y ago
  The military does produce innovations that benefit civilians though. Food products would be one thing. GPS is another.
- stackghost 2y ago
  >Windows is "military-grade". That's a laugh. On the inside, the term of art for things like Windows is COTS - Commercial, Off-the-shelf.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
    Yeah, the "military-grade" products I am comparing to are manufactured according to a specification provided by the customer, not COTS. Bad comparison.
  - myhf 2y ago
    In some fields, all outside software (including well-known vendors) is called SOUP - software of unknown provenance.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Windows for Warships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_System
shirro 2y ago
They won't put this shit in enterprise versions of Windows. Those customers will demand their own spyware. Given time it will be twisted into a method for profiling consumers and delivering targeted marketing that goes far beyond cookie tracking and search histories. That doesn't work as effectively on a business or government system.
- 7bit 2y ago
  They absolutely will. It's all the same.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

Why wouldn't government customers want this feature, they're obsessed with collecting logs of what occurs on managed devices

XorNot 2y ago
Not if the data stays device local. Then it's a liability.
- ARandomerDude 2y ago
  Give it time. I suspect step 1 is "don't worry, it's on your device." Step 2 will be "now it's in the cloud so you don't have to lose your Recall if you lose your computer."
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Spivak 2y ago

The article is a bit of rage-bait. You can already disable it via Group Policy and users can turn it off. They're trying to get clicks because they're trying to make it seems like uninstalling it is some meaningful difference. If you don't trust that the settings on your computer work what in gods name are you using windows for.

Smar 2y ago
Microsoft has a history of re-enabling privacy violating settings after a while, so I would be concerned too.
LeonB 2y ago
> If you don't trust that the settings on your computer work what in gods name are you using windows for Most people don’t get any choice at all about what operating system they use. And those that do get a choice have extremely limited options.
JohnMakin 2y ago
> If you don't trust that the settings on your computer work what in gods name are you using windows for. gaming and for sandboxes. It became obvious to me a while ago with the slow integration of ads where this was going, and that I could never treat windows as a serious work station, unfortunately. I don’t even do banking on windows machines anymore, and it sucks because I greatly prefer WSL 2 and windows tools for my work environment compared to something you typically see in a corporate setting like a Mac.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
I don't trust them not to turn it back on (as happens to all sorts of features after a Windows update), and continue to install garbage I don't need or even wanted. I'm happy on POP_OS! and I'm not going back. Been on POP since January 18th of this year. I gave up on Microsoft when I realized Windows Defender will send over files to Microsoft it thinks are suspicious, and there's 0 audit trail for the files. For all I know it could be just about anything personal or even proprietary company files. I had other reasons, but that one set me off as the final straw. The other one was not being able to make offline accounts by default from installation, without using hacks.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >I don't trust them not to turn it back on Microsoft respects Group Policy because enterprise uses Group Policy.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    That is fair, I did not know that, I thought this was only respected if you were an enterprise licensed user, but that might be my misunderstanding. Even so, I've gotten so used to Linux, I can't go back. Whenever I use Windows I wind up missing Linux. The only thing holding me on Windows was games, but Steam's Proton has gotten insanely well.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      Group Policy is available in any version of Windows from Professional and up and doesn't require joining into a domain or a special license. A standalone Windows Professional install can effect Group Policy for itself and the policies thereof will be respected. Home also technically has Group Policy, but it's not supposed to and most workarounds to that effect are very janky.
  - croutonwagon 2y ago
    Thats not always true. Just today my team was investigating why windows updates didnt install on server 2016 despite deadlines and specific updates GPO's set. We did have some tweaks as an outcome. But overall these policies have been in place for years. And since 2012R2 and later there have been multiple instances where windows updates policies wont apply in lieu of say... "maintenance windows" features being added to windows, so it ignores policies centered around deadlines etc.
shakna 2y ago
The only officially supported way is disabling via Group Policy - but only for Enterprise systems. Whilst users can turn it off today, Microsoft's history and lack of straightforward responses, suggests that won't be the case tomorrow. Besides: Some of the concerns are that it can be utilised by people such as home abusers to track those who might be looking for help to leave that situation. It's a new, very powerful, avenue of control for people stuck there. Being able to opt-out does not fix that. They've created a new way for people to be harmed.
arp242 2y ago
I don't really use Windows, And just have a Windows VM I use for testing or compiling some things. The amount of effort I had to spend to turn off things like Search Indexer and Windows Defender is insane. You can disable things in the control panel but it's still not really disabled and you have to play tricks to really disable it somewhere else. And then sometimes it would come back on because ... reasons? I have zero faith that if I disable something (anything!) on Windows that 1) I've actually disabled it, and 2) that it will stay off. Current Windows is absolutely horrible giving any control over the internals – even more so than the old XP/7 systems were. Before my VM I hadn't touched Windows at all for more than ten years, and I was shocked just how difficult some of these things had become.

bongodongobob 2y ago

They've got their own version of Windows and licensing. They're not running Windows 10 Home lol. They've got their own LTSC type thing. DoD works directly with Microsoft. None of this applies to them.

portn0y 2y ago
[flagged]
stackghost 2y ago
I have worked in National Defense, held a security clearance, etc. and can confidently say you are mistaken. Microsoft is not maintaining a separate build of Windows for DoD. They may have bespoke licensing agreements and support contracts, but military and DoD workstations run regular windows.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  They are, however, maintaining a separate cloud, and parent is not mistaken; windows professional running under group policies is a different animal than windows home https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescriptions/office-365-platform-service-description/office-365-us-government/gcc-high-and-dod https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescripti... >> Subscriptions in the GCC High and DoD environments include the core Exchange Online, SharePoint, and Skype for Business features. Given the increased certification and accreditation of the infrastructure, there are some feature differences between the general commercial Office 365 offerings and those available in GCC High and DoD.
  - stackghost 2y ago
    I'm not going to get any further into it, but the only one who mentioned "windows home" was the other poster, in an attempt at reductio ad absurdum. Whether or not "windows professional with group policies" constitutes "their own version of windows" as per bongodongobob is left as an exercise to the reader.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

"National Defense runs almost entirely on Windows workstations, including "high-side" or classified networks." Windows is "military-grade". That's a laugh. In case of doubt I am referring to the US practice of marketing certain products as "military-grade". Perhaps to suggest something like, "If it is good enough for the military, then it is surely good enough for the civilian."

webworker 2y ago
The military does produce innovations that benefit civilians though. Food products would be one thing. GPS is another.
stackghost 2y ago
>Windows is "military-grade". That's a laugh. On the inside, the term of art for things like Windows is COTS - Commercial, Off-the-shelf.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
  Yeah, the "military-grade" products I am comparing to are manufactured according to a specification provided by the customer, not COTS. Bad comparison.
- myhf 2y ago
  In some fields, all outside software (including well-known vendors) is called SOUP - software of unknown provenance.
ben_w 2y ago
Windows for Warships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_System

shirro 2y ago

They won't put this shit in enterprise versions of Windows. Those customers will demand their own spyware. Given time it will be twisted into a method for profiling consumers and delivering targeted marketing that goes far beyond cookie tracking and search histories. That doesn't work as effectively on a business or government system.

7bit 2y ago
They absolutely will. It's all the same.