6 ms·

I'd prefer blue/green/neither. With the third colour, I just thought "no, that's teal", and my decision was (as you suggested) semi-arbitrary.

by yarg 2y ago

dyauspitr 2y ago
Then everything past the first blue would be neither and you wouldn’t have anything interesting. All those other colors are different shades of teal.
adamhartenz 2y ago
but is the teal more green or blue. You should be able to answer that
- yarg 2y ago
  Is zero more positive or negative? You should be able to answer that.
  - jdiff 2y ago
    More positive. -0 is more negative.
    - yarg 2y ago
      It's neutral (-1 * 0 ≡ +1 * 0); don't confuse it for an infinitesimal (which can be positive or negative).
      - lll-o-lll 2y ago
        Nah, zero definitely feels a bit more positive to me.
      - zeven7 2y ago
        I think they were referring to -0 in floating point, which does exist as a separate value from +0 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero
  - Feathercrown 2y ago
    But teal isn't a single point, it's a range. You can have teals that are more blue or more green than each other; they can't all be zero. Whichever one you choose to be the true transition point between blue and green, there will be teals that are more blue or green than that one.
    - yarg 2y ago
      Sure, but there's also a subrange at the (subjective) centre of that range that will not be perceived as either more blue or more green. And the teal that I referenced in my earlier comment was (for me) such a colour.
      - nayroclade 2y ago
        Saying it’s a subrange implies you can perceive differences in tone within it. In which case, reframe the question as “is this shade of teal closer to the blue or green end of the subrange” if you like.
        yarg 2y ago
        No it absolutely doesn't. It's a well know fact that people are unable to distinguish colours that are too close together. You could even have a smooth gradient from colour 'a' through colour 'b' to colour 'c', where it's possible to distinguish 'a' from 'c' but not to distinguish 'b' from either 'a' or 'c'.
        reichstein 2y ago
        That's not how it works. Maybe if I'm given two colors inside that range, I can say which is bluer and which is greener. Given just one color, I simply cannot say that it's green or blue, or even if it's more green than blue or vice versa. I stopped at the 3rd or 4th come because I couldn't give a honest answer. That makes the test useless. I can't complete it with correct answers, and if I give incorrect answers, the conclusion is useless.
      - lifthrasiir 2y ago
        I think the main point of this test was to determine the position of teal in your case, as your definition of teal is the midpoint(-ish range) between blue and green. (For me it's more blue though.)
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    True zero is very rare. So you are saying that teal just happens to be the true zero?
    - yarg 2y ago
      No, I'm saying that the sliver of a chasm between the colour in isolate, and what I subconsciously imagine the midpoint to be, is so damned thin that were I to look at the colours side by side, I could not distinguish one from t'other. And (even if I could) a bluish teal would no more be a blue than a reddish orange a red.
- antisthenes 2y ago
  Nope. On RGB, they are equal parts blue/green. Since most people are viewing this on a monitor, the question is pointless.
  - SamBam 2y ago
    It's not about how an RGB monitor produces the color, it's about how it's perceived. #00ffff ("Cyan" or "Aqua" [1]) looks bluer to me than green, while #008080 ("Teal") looks significantly greener, despite both colors using equal amounts of blue and green in RGB. 1. https://htmlcolorcodes.com/color-names/ https://htmlcolorcodes.com/color-names/
- Narishma 2y ago
  It's more teal.
pminimax 2y ago
It is common practice in psychometrics to use two levels in a forced choice and model responses as a logistic regression, which is what's done here. Adding an N/A option turns the thing into an ordered logistic regression with unknown levels, which is tricky to fit, but it's possible. Having done a lot of psychophysics, having more options generally doesn't make the task easier.
- bofadeez 2y ago
  Sounds like psychometrics is unsuitable for modeling this problem, according to what you're saying. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail.
- zarzavat 2y ago
  The way that XKCD did it is the best, you ask people to give a name to each color then the responses are entirely natural and unprompted. I don’t think that forced choice can give accurate results if a substantial number of people perceive green and blue as being non-adjacent - i.e. there exists a color between green and blue (turquoise/cyan/teal). Otherwise it’s like asking people whether a color is red or yellow, when it’s clearly a shade of orange.
  - ljsprague 2y ago
    Some shades of orange are closer to red and some are closer to yellow.
    - zarzavat 2y ago
      Yes but saying that a shade of orange is closer to yellow is different from saying that it is yellow. Orange is closer to green than blue but I wouldn’t say that it’s a shade of green. It’s just orange.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    > Otherwise it’s like asking people whether a color is red or yellow, when it’s clearly a shade of orange. No it's like asking people whether a color is red or green, when it's clearly a shade of yellow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel#/media/File%3ALinear_RGB_color_wheel.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel#/media/File%3ALine...
elcomet 2y ago
But this choice has very limited impact; as you are already in a very narrow window of color

I'd prefer blue/green/neither. With the third colour, I just thought "no, that's teal", and my decision was (as you suggested) semi-arbitrary.

by yarg 2y ago

I'd prefer blue/green/neither. With the third colour, I just thought "no, that's teal", and my decision was (as you suggested) semi-arbitrary.

dyauspitr 2y ago

Then everything past the first blue would be neither and you wouldn’t have anything interesting. All those other colors are different shades of teal.

adamhartenz 2y ago

but is the teal more green or blue. You should be able to answer that

yarg 2y ago
Is zero more positive or negative? You should be able to answer that.
- jdiff 2y ago
  More positive. -0 is more negative.
  - yarg 2y ago
    It's neutral (-1 * 0 ≡ +1 * 0); don't confuse it for an infinitesimal (which can be positive or negative).
    - lll-o-lll 2y ago
      Nah, zero definitely feels a bit more positive to me.
    - zeven7 2y ago
      I think they were referring to -0 in floating point, which does exist as a separate value from +0 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero
- Feathercrown 2y ago
  But teal isn't a single point, it's a range. You can have teals that are more blue or more green than each other; they can't all be zero. Whichever one you choose to be the true transition point between blue and green, there will be teals that are more blue or green than that one.
  - yarg 2y ago
    Sure, but there's also a subrange at the (subjective) centre of that range that will not be perceived as either more blue or more green. And the teal that I referenced in my earlier comment was (for me) such a colour.
    - nayroclade 2y ago
      Saying it’s a subrange implies you can perceive differences in tone within it. In which case, reframe the question as “is this shade of teal closer to the blue or green end of the subrange” if you like.
      - yarg 2y ago
        No it absolutely doesn't. It's a well know fact that people are unable to distinguish colours that are too close together. You could even have a smooth gradient from colour 'a' through colour 'b' to colour 'c', where it's possible to distinguish 'a' from 'c' but not to distinguish 'b' from either 'a' or 'c'.
      - reichstein 2y ago
        That's not how it works. Maybe if I'm given two colors inside that range, I can say which is bluer and which is greener. Given just one color, I simply cannot say that it's green or blue, or even if it's more green than blue or vice versa. I stopped at the 3rd or 4th come because I couldn't give a honest answer. That makes the test useless. I can't complete it with correct answers, and if I give incorrect answers, the conclusion is useless.
    - lifthrasiir 2y ago
      I think the main point of this test was to determine the position of teal in your case, as your definition of teal is the midpoint(-ish range) between blue and green. (For me it's more blue though.)
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  True zero is very rare. So you are saying that teal just happens to be the true zero?
  - yarg 2y ago
    No, I'm saying that the sliver of a chasm between the colour in isolate, and what I subconsciously imagine the midpoint to be, is so damned thin that were I to look at the colours side by side, I could not distinguish one from t'other. And (even if I could) a bluish teal would no more be a blue than a reddish orange a red.
antisthenes 2y ago
Nope. On RGB, they are equal parts blue/green. Since most people are viewing this on a monitor, the question is pointless.
- SamBam 2y ago
  It's not about how an RGB monitor produces the color, it's about how it's perceived. #00ffff ("Cyan" or "Aqua" [1]) looks bluer to me than green, while #008080 ("Teal") looks significantly greener, despite both colors using equal amounts of blue and green in RGB. 1. https://htmlcolorcodes.com/color-names/ https://htmlcolorcodes.com/color-names/
Narishma 2y ago
It's more teal.

pminimax 2y ago

It is common practice in psychometrics to use two levels in a forced choice and model responses as a logistic regression, which is what's done here. Adding an N/A option turns the thing into an ordered logistic regression with unknown levels, which is tricky to fit, but it's possible. Having done a lot of psychophysics, having more options generally doesn't make the task easier.

bofadeez 2y ago
Sounds like psychometrics is unsuitable for modeling this problem, according to what you're saying. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail.
zarzavat 2y ago
The way that XKCD did it is the best, you ask people to give a name to each color then the responses are entirely natural and unprompted. I don’t think that forced choice can give accurate results if a substantial number of people perceive green and blue as being non-adjacent - i.e. there exists a color between green and blue (turquoise/cyan/teal). Otherwise it’s like asking people whether a color is red or yellow, when it’s clearly a shade of orange.
- ljsprague 2y ago
  Some shades of orange are closer to red and some are closer to yellow.
  - zarzavat 2y ago
    Yes but saying that a shade of orange is closer to yellow is different from saying that it is yellow. Orange is closer to green than blue but I wouldn’t say that it’s a shade of green. It’s just orange.
- cubefox 2y ago
  > Otherwise it’s like asking people whether a color is red or yellow, when it’s clearly a shade of orange. No it's like asking people whether a color is red or green, when it's clearly a shade of yellow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel#/media/File%3ALinear_RGB_color_wheel.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel#/media/File%3ALine...

elcomet 2y ago

But this choice has very limited impact; as you are already in a very narrow window of color