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I sometimes asked people on HN, what news sites they consider to be of decent quality. And npr.org was recommended several times. Seeing this cheap manipulativ

I sometimes asked people on HN, what news sites they consider to be of decent quality. And npr.org was recommended several times. Seeing this cheap manipulative article suggests they were mistaken. PS. Maybe his 12 years sentence is completely unjust, I don't know. But titles like this... How about "A man is sentenced to death after having cofee for breakfast" for an article about Charles Manson? (I suppose he had cofee sometimes, so formally a true title).

Moorko 2y ago
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bufferoverflow 2y ago
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- defrost 2y ago
  > NPR is very very far left. Nonsense. Not even by US standards and absolutely not by global standards. Overall, we rate NPR (National Public Radio) Left-Center Biased (a slight to moderate liberal bias) based on story selection that leans slightly left and High for factual reporting due to thorough sourcing and accurate news reporting. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ For comparison: Overall, we rate Ground News Least Biased based on publishing news stories from both sides of the political spectrum and appropriately labeling their bias. We also rate them mostly factual rather than High due to the use of poor sources that can publish false or misleading information; however, these news stories are typically reported by other credible media outlets meaning they most likely are factual. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ground-news/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ground-news/ So it's a toss up between the two; one with a mild left bias and high factual reporting Vs one with less bias but not so well researched.
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Nonsense? Show me 3 stories from NPR in the last month (among hundreds they've reported in that time frame) with a right-wing flavor. You know, things like articles against abortion, critical of Kamala, supporting mass-deportation of illegal immigrants, etc.
    - defrost 2y ago
      They're left of the US centre (not global, US). Not "far left", not "very far left", and not "very, very far left".
      - bufferoverflow 2y ago
        Ok, you failed to show a single article with the right-wing perspective. How are they not far-left again?
        defrost 2y ago
        I failed at nothing, I simply don't follow your orders .. perhaps try your "commands" on your dogs and|or children and see if you fare better. As for NPR they have only a slight to moderate bias in story selection to the left and they report news not apply Fox | Sky News level spin to it.
        bufferoverflow 2y ago
        "Slight to moderate bias" when every single article is left-leaning. Suuure. My child has better reasoning skills.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        082349872349872 2y ago
        I am reminded of an article from our (state) news agency, on the Biden->Harris transition, one sentence of which said (roughly translated) "Trump is already trying to tar Harris as an extreme-leftist candidate, but then again, over there his point might be valid, for according to Wikipedia, there they believe being against the death penalty to be an extreme-left position."
  - LAC-Tech 2y ago
    Where do Americans get this notion that their Overton window is to the right of the rest of the world? To the right of Canada and Western Europe, OK sure, but that's a tiny fraction of planet earth. Go check our Indian politics, which is more numerically represented of planet earth, and tell me the US is to the right of hindu nationalism.
    - defrost 2y ago
      No idea. Perhaps you should ask an American?
- avodonosov 2y ago
  Thanks, I will try it, probably. I asked people primarily not because I want good news sites for myself. For my news reading method polarized, manipulative and biased sources are sometimes more informative. But I am interested to know what people read and who they believe. Although, having a high quality source maybe useful to me. Also interesting to see novel approaches and experiments, like the bias measurement the ground.news seems to have.
  - avodonosov 2y ago
    Browsed the ground.news a little. Seems interesting at first sight, thank you for the link. Strange that they consider bias as a spectrum between Left and Right. Doesn't make much sense to me, especially for the topics interesting me most.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  NPR is not “very very far left”. It is left leaning, but their articles are notbased on pure opinion and conjecture like much of what I see in the right leaning news like Fox, and flat out lies in OAN/Newsmax/Breitbart/Twitter
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Show me 3 stories from NPR in the last month (among hundreds they've reported in that time frame) with a right-wing flavor. You know, things like articles against abortion, critical of Kamala, supporting mass-deportation of illegal immigrants, etc.
    - EasyMark 2y ago
      I never claimed they had right leaning stories, they have many neutral articles which you are more than welcome to check out on your on time, but not on mine.
      - bufferoverflow 2y ago
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EasyMark 2y ago
Speaking out against a repressive regime is always okay, the problem is it’s a violent repressive regime who will throw you in prison for criticizing it. So his 12 years sentence is completely unjust like nearly all of Iran’s tossing people in prison for simply expressing free thought. He was not trying to inspire violence.
ripjaygn 2y ago
AP News has been posting fake news about Tesla, it's sad to see.
pas 2y ago
it can still be decent quality despite having clickbait titles (which is nowadays basically a must in this "media ecosystem") but of course to a certain degree it's subjective. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/sorry-i-still-think-i-am-right-about https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/sorry-i-still-think-i-am-ri...
- avodonosov 2y ago
  Yes, selective presentation of facts is one of the main methods of manipulations today. The author of your link argues that the biased reporters are not necessarily evil. I think this is not the main concern for a reader. His main goal is to build a world view as adequate to reality as possible. My take on how to approach that as a news consumer: https://avodonosov.blogspot.com/2024/09/scientific-method-for-news-reading-and.html https://avodonosov.blogspot.com/2024/09/scientific-method-fo... Of course, some reporters are genuinely mistaken despite trying to do best reporting. Others are intentionally manipulative - no doubt that happens often too. But even they can think it is for good. And I agree with your author we should not translate this into hostility in the society by declaring all biased reporters as evil. But we can note their quality. Speaking of npr.org, I can not decide conclusively from this single example whether they stay in the "decent quality" category. But it suggests they are ready to compromise on quality. It's not only the title that is misguiding. The article body is not keen to make the things clear. I suppose many readers left with a firm belief the man was really sentenced for the dot posted alone.
  - pas 2y ago
    I agree that NPR is regurgitating the narrative by "Iran International English", but to me the body of the article is crystal clear, this guy was an activist, and this particular "ratio-ing" was a likely trigger that led to him being included in this batch of people "to be made example of". I think NPR is providing a disservice by reporting the actual "charges" he was found guilty of in 2020, because they don't matter. It's a brutal dictatorship, of course there are laws against criticizing the government ("anti-regime propaganda", and of course anyone can be charged with treason-lite (pro-Israel propaganda) and ... it's a theocracy, of course there are blasphemy laws, yeey! We don't have high-certainty information about the proximate causes that landed this guy in prison, but it doesn't matter (it matters for scholars if they are doing some kind of deep dive on crackdowns, and of course it matters for actual people on the ground, who are trying to contest the charges, but even then the statistics is not kind to their efforts). Similarly putting the photo of the ayatollah there is a disservice to Hossein. And ... when it comes to what to do with this as a news consumer, the sad fact is that this is not news. There's zero new bit of actionable information in this. (NPR published this because "Iran International" published this on 31 Aug, the "trial" was apparently on 7th of August. He tweeted in June, and was released from prison sometime around April in 2023. Wikipedia says 2024, but it's likely wrong.)
limit499karma 2y ago
Their source is Iran International and that outfit is propaganda and agitprop oriented. It is as unbiased as their opposite number PressTV (run by IRI) or RT (Russian) or an ideologically committed red/blue outfit in US. These days Reuters is the closest thing to relatively unbiased reporting in the West. imo.

Moorko 2y ago

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bufferoverflow 2y ago

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defrost 2y ago
> NPR is very very far left. Nonsense. Not even by US standards and absolutely not by global standards. Overall, we rate NPR (National Public Radio) Left-Center Biased (a slight to moderate liberal bias) based on story selection that leans slightly left and High for factual reporting due to thorough sourcing and accurate news reporting. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ For comparison: Overall, we rate Ground News Least Biased based on publishing news stories from both sides of the political spectrum and appropriately labeling their bias. We also rate them mostly factual rather than High due to the use of poor sources that can publish false or misleading information; however, these news stories are typically reported by other credible media outlets meaning they most likely are factual. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ground-news/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ground-news/ So it's a toss up between the two; one with a mild left bias and high factual reporting Vs one with less bias but not so well researched.
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  Nonsense? Show me 3 stories from NPR in the last month (among hundreds they've reported in that time frame) with a right-wing flavor. You know, things like articles against abortion, critical of Kamala, supporting mass-deportation of illegal immigrants, etc.
  - defrost 2y ago
    They're left of the US centre (not global, US). Not "far left", not "very far left", and not "very, very far left".
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      Ok, you failed to show a single article with the right-wing perspective. How are they not far-left again?
      - defrost 2y ago
        I failed at nothing, I simply don't follow your orders .. perhaps try your "commands" on your dogs and|or children and see if you fare better. As for NPR they have only a slight to moderate bias in story selection to the left and they report news not apply Fox | Sky News level spin to it.
        bufferoverflow 2y ago
        "Slight to moderate bias" when every single article is left-leaning. Suuure. My child has better reasoning skills.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - 082349872349872 2y ago
        I am reminded of an article from our (state) news agency, on the Biden->Harris transition, one sentence of which said (roughly translated) "Trump is already trying to tar Harris as an extreme-leftist candidate, but then again, over there his point might be valid, for according to Wikipedia, there they believe being against the death penalty to be an extreme-left position."
- LAC-Tech 2y ago
  Where do Americans get this notion that their Overton window is to the right of the rest of the world? To the right of Canada and Western Europe, OK sure, but that's a tiny fraction of planet earth. Go check our Indian politics, which is more numerically represented of planet earth, and tell me the US is to the right of hindu nationalism.
  - defrost 2y ago
    No idea. Perhaps you should ask an American?
avodonosov 2y ago
Thanks, I will try it, probably. I asked people primarily not because I want good news sites for myself. For my news reading method polarized, manipulative and biased sources are sometimes more informative. But I am interested to know what people read and who they believe. Although, having a high quality source maybe useful to me. Also interesting to see novel approaches and experiments, like the bias measurement the ground.news seems to have.
- avodonosov 2y ago
  Browsed the ground.news a little. Seems interesting at first sight, thank you for the link. Strange that they consider bias as a spectrum between Left and Right. Doesn't make much sense to me, especially for the topics interesting me most.
EasyMark 2y ago
NPR is not “very very far left”. It is left leaning, but their articles are notbased on pure opinion and conjecture like much of what I see in the right leaning news like Fox, and flat out lies in OAN/Newsmax/Breitbart/Twitter
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  Show me 3 stories from NPR in the last month (among hundreds they've reported in that time frame) with a right-wing flavor. You know, things like articles against abortion, critical of Kamala, supporting mass-deportation of illegal immigrants, etc.
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    I never claimed they had right leaning stories, they have many neutral articles which you are more than welcome to check out on your on time, but not on mine.
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      [flagged]

EasyMark 2y ago

Speaking out against a repressive regime is always okay, the problem is it’s a violent repressive regime who will throw you in prison for criticizing it. So his 12 years sentence is completely unjust like nearly all of Iran’s tossing people in prison for simply expressing free thought. He was not trying to inspire violence.

ripjaygn 2y ago

AP News has been posting fake news about Tesla, it's sad to see.

pas 2y ago

it can still be decent quality despite having clickbait titles (which is nowadays basically a must in this "media ecosystem") but of course to a certain degree it's subjective. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/sorry-i-still-think-i-am-right-about https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/sorry-i-still-think-i-am-ri...

avodonosov 2y ago
Yes, selective presentation of facts is one of the main methods of manipulations today. The author of your link argues that the biased reporters are not necessarily evil. I think this is not the main concern for a reader. His main goal is to build a world view as adequate to reality as possible. My take on how to approach that as a news consumer: https://avodonosov.blogspot.com/2024/09/scientific-method-for-news-reading-and.html https://avodonosov.blogspot.com/2024/09/scientific-method-fo... Of course, some reporters are genuinely mistaken despite trying to do best reporting. Others are intentionally manipulative - no doubt that happens often too. But even they can think it is for good. And I agree with your author we should not translate this into hostility in the society by declaring all biased reporters as evil. But we can note their quality. Speaking of npr.org, I can not decide conclusively from this single example whether they stay in the "decent quality" category. But it suggests they are ready to compromise on quality. It's not only the title that is misguiding. The article body is not keen to make the things clear. I suppose many readers left with a firm belief the man was really sentenced for the dot posted alone.
- pas 2y ago
  I agree that NPR is regurgitating the narrative by "Iran International English", but to me the body of the article is crystal clear, this guy was an activist, and this particular "ratio-ing" was a likely trigger that led to him being included in this batch of people "to be made example of". I think NPR is providing a disservice by reporting the actual "charges" he was found guilty of in 2020, because they don't matter. It's a brutal dictatorship, of course there are laws against criticizing the government ("anti-regime propaganda", and of course anyone can be charged with treason-lite (pro-Israel propaganda) and ... it's a theocracy, of course there are blasphemy laws, yeey! We don't have high-certainty information about the proximate causes that landed this guy in prison, but it doesn't matter (it matters for scholars if they are doing some kind of deep dive on crackdowns, and of course it matters for actual people on the ground, who are trying to contest the charges, but even then the statistics is not kind to their efforts). Similarly putting the photo of the ayatollah there is a disservice to Hossein. And ... when it comes to what to do with this as a news consumer, the sad fact is that this is not news. There's zero new bit of actionable information in this. (NPR published this because "Iran International" published this on 31 Aug, the "trial" was apparently on 7th of August. He tweeted in June, and was released from prison sometime around April in 2023. Wikipedia says 2024, but it's likely wrong.)

limit499karma 2y ago

Their source is Iran International and that outfit is propaganda and agitprop oriented. It is as unbiased as their opposite number PressTV (run by IRI) or RT (Russian) or an ideologically committed red/blue outfit in US. These days Reuters is the closest thing to relatively unbiased reporting in the West. imo.