4 ms·

So this is an interesting correlation, but are we sure it doesn’t go the other way? Intelligence is genetically determined to a significant extent. Smart peop

So this is an interesting correlation, but are we sure it doesn’t go the other way? Intelligence is genetically determined to a significant extent. Smart people figure out workarounds. Smart people have smart kids. Smart kids are ahead of other kids. Did the workaround cause them to be ahead? Or did having a genetic lineage that produced the workaround cause it?

bsder 2y ago
True. However, lots of socioeconomic cohort studies show that the smartest of the lowest quintile rarely do as well as the weakest of the upper quintile. Intelligence may be genetically inherited, but how far you go with it is almost completely dependent upon the resources around you.
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  Is there a typo in here around quintiles? The statement about quintiles as written seems to go in the direction of genetic determinism, which conflicts with “however”. For sure across an entire lifespan and within our society, what you do with it has a huge influence. And, intelligence often works against you since the more intelligent you are the more alienated you are from a larger percent of the population and this can cause a lot of psychological issues that work against “productivity” and “success”. But for young kids I’m pretty sure intelligence and school performance are very correlated, much more so than peak income and intelligence for example. Schmoozing ability doesn’t get you far on a long division test.
  - bsder 2y ago
    The "smartest" (measured by IQ/SAT/whatever your favorite broken measure) of the lowest socioeconomic quintile (lowest 20%) almost never do as well (measured by highest academic attainment, monetary holding, etc.) as the "dumbest" of the highest socioeconomic quintile (highest 20%). A child can have a really high intelligence, but its usage will be compromised if they're always hungry, always sleepy from being saddled with taking care of siblings or afraid of being abused. A child can have lower intelligence but this can be buttressed by spending lots of extra time and tutors which the upper classes have in abundance. One of the teachers I knew used to have a wag saying: "When you do wrong when you're poor, you get called thick and can look forward to jail. When you do wrong when you're rich, you get forcibly tutored until you're not an embarassment. When you do wrong when you're middle class, you get called ADHD so everybody can ignore you."
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      Ah I missed “socioeconomic” quintiles, thanks for politely clarifying. The way I see this is - intelligence is genetically determined, but success is determined by behavior, not intelligence. Intelligence just enables more adaptive behavior selection, all else being equal. Environmental factors can inject behavior patterns that override whatever analytic potential a person has. Which I think basically lines up with what you are saying.
m2024 2y ago
Intelligence is hereditary to a significant extent
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  I’m not sure what you are trying to say? Have you looked into the relevant twin studies? This is kind of a taboo topic in mainstream circles so I think a lot of people have inaccurate information in their heads.

bsder 2y ago

True. However, lots of socioeconomic cohort studies show that the smartest of the lowest quintile rarely do as well as the weakest of the upper quintile. Intelligence may be genetically inherited, but how far you go with it is almost completely dependent upon the resources around you.

pfannkuchen 2y ago
Is there a typo in here around quintiles? The statement about quintiles as written seems to go in the direction of genetic determinism, which conflicts with “however”. For sure across an entire lifespan and within our society, what you do with it has a huge influence. And, intelligence often works against you since the more intelligent you are the more alienated you are from a larger percent of the population and this can cause a lot of psychological issues that work against “productivity” and “success”. But for young kids I’m pretty sure intelligence and school performance are very correlated, much more so than peak income and intelligence for example. Schmoozing ability doesn’t get you far on a long division test.
- bsder 2y ago
  The "smartest" (measured by IQ/SAT/whatever your favorite broken measure) of the lowest socioeconomic quintile (lowest 20%) almost never do as well (measured by highest academic attainment, monetary holding, etc.) as the "dumbest" of the highest socioeconomic quintile (highest 20%). A child can have a really high intelligence, but its usage will be compromised if they're always hungry, always sleepy from being saddled with taking care of siblings or afraid of being abused. A child can have lower intelligence but this can be buttressed by spending lots of extra time and tutors which the upper classes have in abundance. One of the teachers I knew used to have a wag saying: "When you do wrong when you're poor, you get called thick and can look forward to jail. When you do wrong when you're rich, you get forcibly tutored until you're not an embarassment. When you do wrong when you're middle class, you get called ADHD so everybody can ignore you."
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    Ah I missed “socioeconomic” quintiles, thanks for politely clarifying. The way I see this is - intelligence is genetically determined, but success is determined by behavior, not intelligence. Intelligence just enables more adaptive behavior selection, all else being equal. Environmental factors can inject behavior patterns that override whatever analytic potential a person has. Which I think basically lines up with what you are saying.

m2024 2y ago

Intelligence is hereditary to a significant extent

pfannkuchen 2y ago
I’m not sure what you are trying to say? Have you looked into the relevant twin studies? This is kind of a taboo topic in mainstream circles so I think a lot of people have inaccurate information in their heads.