4 ms·

I'm a firm "ad audio spying denialist", but that's mainly an "uhm, ACKTUALLY" kind of denial. Ad firms absolutely do spy, but probably not through the use of mi

I'm a firm "ad audio spying denialist", but that's mainly an "uhm, ACKTUALLY" kind of denial. Ad firms absolutely do spy, but probably not through the use of microphone audio... mainly because that's way too much information for what they actually want to do. That and every mobile OS shows very obvious warnings whenever media capture is being used, and I'm not aware of a sanctioned way to defeat those that isn't a 0day exploit that would get caught, patched, and banned off the App Store / Google Play in short order. What I suspect is actually going on is the boring ol kind of location tracking and fingerprinting. Locations, searches, and call history. Metadata, in the language of surveillance law. Of course, the cruel joke of surveillance law[0] is that metadata is content: you can infer the content of a conversation from the circumstances of which it took place. Three-letter agencies rely on the fact that nobody understands this, and so do advertisers (of whom they pay money for data from). [0] I'm resisting calling it the "holographic principle of surveillance" on principle.

WillAdams 2y ago
For a good example of this, with a bit of the underlying mathematics see: https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/ https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metad...
synicalx 2y ago
> That and every mobile OS shows very obvious warnings whenever media capture is being used Does that show up with the always-on "hey siri/google" listening?
- alphabettsy 2y ago
  No, but as soon as the Siri process is listening it does. The wake word listening process is completely separate and runs on a co-processor. https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri
akimbostrawman 2y ago
>Ad firms absolutely do spy, but probably not through the use of microphone audio... mainly because that's way too much information Ultrasonic tracking has been a thing for a long time https://www.zdnet.com/article/hundreds-of-apps-are-using-ultrasonic-sounds-to-track-your-ad-habits/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/hundreds-of-apps-are-using-ult...
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yes but as a result of that coverage it's now very clear when apps use the microphone. That pretty much killed this practice.
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    for certain devices such as smartphones, other Smart devices such as TVs are still used for that.
    - hellojesus 2y ago
      How does it work for tvs in practice? Skimming the article, it seems a large practice was to use the sounds as confirmation of user location (were they at an event). What ultrasonic source is my tv likely to pick up?
      - akimbostrawman 2y ago
        Ads can also have ultrasonic signature for example if you listen to an ad on your phone nearby. Ofc it could also just listen to itself
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        I noticed Microsoft teams seems to do something like this. If I walk into a meeting room it tells me the same meeting is on speaker and do I want to mute my laptop.
        2y ago
mike_hearn 2y ago
They probably do have microphone audio (they say so specifically) but they're buying it from some skeezy app or game that has the permissions for legit reasons and looks for a way to monetize the install base.

WillAdams 2y ago

For a good example of this, with a bit of the underlying mathematics see: https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/ https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metad...

synicalx 2y ago

> That and every mobile OS shows very obvious warnings whenever media capture is being used Does that show up with the always-on "hey siri/google" listening?

alphabettsy 2y ago
No, but as soon as the Siri process is listening it does. The wake word listening process is completely separate and runs on a co-processor. https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri

akimbostrawman 2y ago

>Ad firms absolutely do spy, but probably not through the use of microphone audio... mainly because that's way too much information Ultrasonic tracking has been a thing for a long time https://www.zdnet.com/article/hundreds-of-apps-are-using-ultrasonic-sounds-to-track-your-ad-habits/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/hundreds-of-apps-are-using-ult...

wkat4242 2y ago
Yes but as a result of that coverage it's now very clear when apps use the microphone. That pretty much killed this practice.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  for certain devices such as smartphones, other Smart devices such as TVs are still used for that.
  - hellojesus 2y ago
    How does it work for tvs in practice? Skimming the article, it seems a large practice was to use the sounds as confirmation of user location (were they at an event). What ultrasonic source is my tv likely to pick up?
    - akimbostrawman 2y ago
      Ads can also have ultrasonic signature for example if you listen to an ad on your phone nearby. Ofc it could also just listen to itself
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      I noticed Microsoft teams seems to do something like this. If I walk into a meeting room it tells me the same meeting is on speaker and do I want to mute my laptop.
      - 2y ago

mike_hearn 2y ago

They probably do have microphone audio (they say so specifically) but they're buying it from some skeezy app or game that has the permissions for legit reasons and looks for a way to monetize the install base.