4 ms·

People use their job as an identity - and via extension some use religion, one of the lessons you learn later on in your life is that your identity isn't your j

People use their job as an identity - and via extension some use religion, one of the lessons you learn later on in your life is that your identity isn't your job, achievements, money, anything. You identity shouldn't be dependent on any of those things.

squigz 2y ago
You're missing the point that providing some basis for one's identity is only one aspect of why people draw meaning from a job - as GP points out, it is more about providing purpose and a sense that one is contributing to something Though I do wonder - what, in your opinion, should one's identity be based around?
- hackit2 2y ago
  How you choose to react to situations, and how you choose to act in your life is what defines your identity. Not the results you gained by effort or achievement or lack thereof. > that one is contributing to something I feel sorry for people who measure their self based on some consumerism yard stick, it is pathological.
  - ilc 2y ago
    Contributing to something can be helping at the local church, or other things of value. I don't consider the urge to help others a negative one. But one shouldn't measure. It is doing the thing to do it for whatever your reasons are, that matters. If I choose to build something to help a kid walk, I am contributing to many things. And yet, I may get paid nothing, and not even care.
    - squigz 2y ago
      > I may get paid nothing, and not even care. Even if you did get paid, it doesn't take away from what you're doing.
      - ilc 2y ago
        It does and it doesn't. Without an interchange of value, you can focus on the thing as the thing, instead of as a value exchange.
        squigz 2y ago
        I don't believe these are mutually exclusive, but I agree that that's a fine line to walk.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > I feel sorry for people who measure their self based on some consumerism yard stick, it is pathological. I mean, if you think this sums up every job everyone has, then I feel sorry for you. Many people are doing laudable work that has nothing to do with "consumerism"
gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
While this does seem rather zen, what would it look like?
- ilc 2y ago
  The key is to not over invest in work. Work is not life. Work is something you do to enable you to do the things, that are you life. I enjoy programming. I program for a living. But, I also have riders on my employment contract that allow me to code outside of work, and enjoy that. For others, it will be gaming, sailing, anything. The key is to fill that void that your work identity leaves behind with things that you do and control. In doing so, you take control of your life. I am not perfect here, but because I can balance several different things... none of them control me fully, I control me.
- roenxi 2y ago
  Strictly speaking, the Zen answer is something like you don't have an identity. But in practice, you get a lot more out of basing an identity on the community(s) you want to be part of. It is good to be a little picky. I don't see basing an identity on a professional community as being clever - that community isn't going to do much for its members except maybe help them find a job from time to time.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I've found pg's essays to be a little hit or miss, but I really like his "Keep Your Identity Small"[0]. After reading it I realized that a lot of things that I had made into my identity were not useful or positive, and only created conflict or stress or anxiety. I like the idea of identity including mostly abstract things. Like, for example, if you donate to charities or spend time volunteering, don't hold "philanthropist" as a part of your identity; instead think of yourself as "generous" or "giving". Instead of a "computer programmer" I think of myself as someone who likes to solve problems or likes to build things. The nice thing about that is it's more flexible, and unlocks creativity and enjoyment in places I don't expect, when I find that I can also solve problems or build things that have nothing to do with computers. And identity should be a frank evaluation; your identity might include some things you consider negative. That's fine; you might be working on those things, or not, or whatever. I'm far from perfect, of course. There are still things I consider part of my identity that maybe I shouldn't, because they constrain me or because they can cause conflict. But that's something to work on another day. [0] https://paulgraham.com/identity.html https://paulgraham.com/identity.html -- though I disagree that discussions about Javascript don't devolve into religious arguments

squigz 2y ago

You're missing the point that providing some basis for one's identity is only one aspect of why people draw meaning from a job - as GP points out, it is more about providing purpose and a sense that one is contributing to something Though I do wonder - what, in your opinion, should one's identity be based around?

hackit2 2y ago
How you choose to react to situations, and how you choose to act in your life is what defines your identity. Not the results you gained by effort or achievement or lack thereof. > that one is contributing to something I feel sorry for people who measure their self based on some consumerism yard stick, it is pathological.
- ilc 2y ago
  Contributing to something can be helping at the local church, or other things of value. I don't consider the urge to help others a negative one. But one shouldn't measure. It is doing the thing to do it for whatever your reasons are, that matters. If I choose to build something to help a kid walk, I am contributing to many things. And yet, I may get paid nothing, and not even care.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > I may get paid nothing, and not even care. Even if you did get paid, it doesn't take away from what you're doing.
    - ilc 2y ago
      It does and it doesn't. Without an interchange of value, you can focus on the thing as the thing, instead of as a value exchange.
      - squigz 2y ago
        I don't believe these are mutually exclusive, but I agree that that's a fine line to walk.
- squigz 2y ago
  > I feel sorry for people who measure their self based on some consumerism yard stick, it is pathological. I mean, if you think this sums up every job everyone has, then I feel sorry for you. Many people are doing laudable work that has nothing to do with "consumerism"

gadflyinyoureye 2y ago

While this does seem rather zen, what would it look like?

ilc 2y ago
The key is to not over invest in work. Work is not life. Work is something you do to enable you to do the things, that are you life. I enjoy programming. I program for a living. But, I also have riders on my employment contract that allow me to code outside of work, and enjoy that. For others, it will be gaming, sailing, anything. The key is to fill that void that your work identity leaves behind with things that you do and control. In doing so, you take control of your life. I am not perfect here, but because I can balance several different things... none of them control me fully, I control me.
roenxi 2y ago
Strictly speaking, the Zen answer is something like you don't have an identity. But in practice, you get a lot more out of basing an identity on the community(s) you want to be part of. It is good to be a little picky. I don't see basing an identity on a professional community as being clever - that community isn't going to do much for its members except maybe help them find a job from time to time.
kelnos 2y ago
I've found pg's essays to be a little hit or miss, but I really like his "Keep Your Identity Small"[0]. After reading it I realized that a lot of things that I had made into my identity were not useful or positive, and only created conflict or stress or anxiety. I like the idea of identity including mostly abstract things. Like, for example, if you donate to charities or spend time volunteering, don't hold "philanthropist" as a part of your identity; instead think of yourself as "generous" or "giving". Instead of a "computer programmer" I think of myself as someone who likes to solve problems or likes to build things. The nice thing about that is it's more flexible, and unlocks creativity and enjoyment in places I don't expect, when I find that I can also solve problems or build things that have nothing to do with computers. And identity should be a frank evaluation; your identity might include some things you consider negative. That's fine; you might be working on those things, or not, or whatever. I'm far from perfect, of course. There are still things I consider part of my identity that maybe I shouldn't, because they constrain me or because they can cause conflict. But that's something to work on another day. [0] https://paulgraham.com/identity.html https://paulgraham.com/identity.html -- though I disagree that discussions about Javascript don't devolve into religious arguments