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It's worth pointing out that similar stuff (although not quite as egregious) is happening in Belarus, Brazil, and even the UK.

eigenket 2y ago
Could you point to something happening in the UK you think is similar to this? Edit: I guess there's this [1] which free-speach maximalists would probably disagree with. Personally I think there's a line between free speech and calls to violence at which point its reasonable to prosecute people. She tweeted calling for people to set fire to buildings where migrants were being housed. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2910vrrygo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2910vrrygo
- deleted 2y ago
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- throw10920 2y ago
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  - AlexSW 2y ago
    Could you link to the particular case you're referring to?
  - eigenket 2y ago
    Are you lying or misinformed? He didn't get 3 years in prison for telling people to go out and protest, he told people to “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”. Setting fire to a building full of people isn't a protest, it's attempted murder. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/northampton-bbc-news-southport-defence-reform-b2594106.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/northampton-bbc-...
    - emmet 2y ago
      They always try to be vague when the truth is difficult to defend.
      - throw10920 2y ago
        You both are actively lying. I'm not talking about Tyler Kay, I'm talking about Wayne O’Rourke, whose tweets did not advocate for murder at all, let alone “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”. Not once did I mention Tyler. That's something you fabricated to deceive and mislead. It's people like you that enable authoritarianism around the world by gaslighting others and justifying suppression of speech.
        eigenket 2y ago
        Oh, that guy posted "Today was a terror attack by a Muslim...heads must roll" which again sounds like a call to violence to me. Sorry I picked the wrong guy calling for racial violence, my mistake.
        throw10920 2y ago
        You actively lied about the person that was jailed to further a political agenda of suppressing free speech, protest, and democracy. That's not a mistake, that's malice. Your bad indeed. Moreover, it's pretty clear that "heads must roll" is a euphemism used for people being punished or losing their job, and is almost always used in a non-violent context: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heads%20will%20roll https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heads%20will%20ro... There's no clear call to violence here. You are actively trying to justify tyranny.
        eigenket 2y ago
        I didn't lie, I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific. In the context of his tweet I think it was clearly a call to violence. Almost always is not the same as always.
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago
  Well we are working it. In these riots we have charged a 12 year old orphan, sentenced 13 year old girl, jailed a guy for being “a curious observer”, and some woman for throwing water. Previously, we have sentenced a teenager for reposting a rap song, some guy for filming his pug doing nazi salute, and charged two guys for possession of a book ‘Anarchist cookbook’ Also we have charged a woman for silent prayer. So now I understand why a book about ‘thoughtcrime’ was written in Britain, it’s a local idea that was in the air for some time
  - throw10920 2y ago
    The UK judges have stated that they will jail passive observers of the riots as a matter of policy, so it's not just that one guy: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/09/judge-refuses-bail-riot-bystanders-belfast/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/09/judge-refuses-ba...
    - eigenket 2y ago
      More specifically they're jailing people who were at the riots but who claim they were only passive observers. This is standard pre-trial detention because pretty serious crimes were committed. Obviously if its found at their trial that they didn't commit any crime then they won't be going to prison.
  - eigenket 2y ago
    I don't know the details of the other cases but the UK didn't jail anyone for being a "curious observer". They jailed him in advance of his trial where it is alleged he took part in criminal acts (setting fire to shops and other standard riot stuff). He claims he was a curious observer, but frankly he can claim whatever he likes. Like everyone in pre-trial detention he is innocent until proven guilty so his claim doesn't really change anything.
snehk 2y ago
Add Germany to that list. A girl was sentenced to actual jail for insulting a rapist who was spared jail. Absolute madness.
- GrassTheBikes 2y ago
  Ursula Haverbeck always merits a mention too. Imagine people imprisoning a 90 year old woman for refusing to adopt their imposed narrative of a historical period in which she actively lived and participated.
  - tasuki 2y ago
    > in which she actively lived and participated. Yes... ? She participated... on the side of the Nazis who murdered Jews? She even threatened Jews with "a new pogrom"? I'd imprison her all right!
- eigenket 2y ago
  Ok, there's some stuff that you seem confused about here. Firstly she wasn't sentenced for insulting him, she was sentenced for threats of violence against him, specifically she wrote something like "you won't be able to go anywhere without having your face kicked in" and leaked his personal information. Secondly she was in jail for 2 days, this was Freizeitarrest which is legally distinct from an actual prison sentence, with the aim of showing someone how unpleasant prison can be. You're not in a normal cell, don't have contact with regular prisoners, it doesn't leave a police record, doesn't have the same probation or anything. Finally he wasn't sentenced to jail because he was a minor. He did get sentenced to 60 hours of labor with the proceeds going to her. I don't know whether 60 hours of unpaid (presumably) unpleasant labor is harsher than the very short "jail" sentence she got, personally I would say so but it probably depends on the person. Personally I would agree that his sentence wasn't harsh enough, but German law doesn't really like giving minors harsh sentences. I think her punishment for the threats of violence were completely reasonable.
  - throw10920 2y ago
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eigenket 2y ago

Could you point to something happening in the UK you think is similar to this? Edit: I guess there's this [1] which free-speach maximalists would probably disagree with. Personally I think there's a line between free speech and calls to violence at which point its reasonable to prosecute people. She tweeted calling for people to set fire to buildings where migrants were being housed. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2910vrrygo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2910vrrygo

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throw10920 2y ago
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- AlexSW 2y ago
  Could you link to the particular case you're referring to?
- eigenket 2y ago
  Are you lying or misinformed? He didn't get 3 years in prison for telling people to go out and protest, he told people to “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”. Setting fire to a building full of people isn't a protest, it's attempted murder. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/northampton-bbc-news-southport-defence-reform-b2594106.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/northampton-bbc-...
  - emmet 2y ago
    They always try to be vague when the truth is difficult to defend.
    - throw10920 2y ago
      You both are actively lying. I'm not talking about Tyler Kay, I'm talking about Wayne O’Rourke, whose tweets did not advocate for murder at all, let alone “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”. Not once did I mention Tyler. That's something you fabricated to deceive and mislead. It's people like you that enable authoritarianism around the world by gaslighting others and justifying suppression of speech.
      - eigenket 2y ago
        Oh, that guy posted "Today was a terror attack by a Muslim...heads must roll" which again sounds like a call to violence to me. Sorry I picked the wrong guy calling for racial violence, my mistake.
        throw10920 2y ago
        You actively lied about the person that was jailed to further a political agenda of suppressing free speech, protest, and democracy. That's not a mistake, that's malice. Your bad indeed. Moreover, it's pretty clear that "heads must roll" is a euphemism used for people being punished or losing their job, and is almost always used in a non-violent context: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heads%20will%20roll https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heads%20will%20ro... There's no clear call to violence here. You are actively trying to justify tyranny.
        eigenket 2y ago
        I didn't lie, I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific. In the context of his tweet I think it was clearly a call to violence. Almost always is not the same as always.
ClumsyPilot 2y ago
Well we are working it. In these riots we have charged a 12 year old orphan, sentenced 13 year old girl, jailed a guy for being “a curious observer”, and some woman for throwing water. Previously, we have sentenced a teenager for reposting a rap song, some guy for filming his pug doing nazi salute, and charged two guys for possession of a book ‘Anarchist cookbook’ Also we have charged a woman for silent prayer. So now I understand why a book about ‘thoughtcrime’ was written in Britain, it’s a local idea that was in the air for some time
- throw10920 2y ago
  The UK judges have stated that they will jail passive observers of the riots as a matter of policy, so it's not just that one guy: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/09/judge-refuses-bail-riot-bystanders-belfast/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/09/judge-refuses-ba...
  - eigenket 2y ago
    More specifically they're jailing people who were at the riots but who claim they were only passive observers. This is standard pre-trial detention because pretty serious crimes were committed. Obviously if its found at their trial that they didn't commit any crime then they won't be going to prison.
- eigenket 2y ago
  I don't know the details of the other cases but the UK didn't jail anyone for being a "curious observer". They jailed him in advance of his trial where it is alleged he took part in criminal acts (setting fire to shops and other standard riot stuff). He claims he was a curious observer, but frankly he can claim whatever he likes. Like everyone in pre-trial detention he is innocent until proven guilty so his claim doesn't really change anything.

snehk 2y ago

Add Germany to that list. A girl was sentenced to actual jail for insulting a rapist who was spared jail. Absolute madness.

GrassTheBikes 2y ago
Ursula Haverbeck always merits a mention too. Imagine people imprisoning a 90 year old woman for refusing to adopt their imposed narrative of a historical period in which she actively lived and participated.
- tasuki 2y ago
  > in which she actively lived and participated. Yes... ? She participated... on the side of the Nazis who murdered Jews? She even threatened Jews with "a new pogrom"? I'd imprison her all right!
eigenket 2y ago
Ok, there's some stuff that you seem confused about here. Firstly she wasn't sentenced for insulting him, she was sentenced for threats of violence against him, specifically she wrote something like "you won't be able to go anywhere without having your face kicked in" and leaked his personal information. Secondly she was in jail for 2 days, this was Freizeitarrest which is legally distinct from an actual prison sentence, with the aim of showing someone how unpleasant prison can be. You're not in a normal cell, don't have contact with regular prisoners, it doesn't leave a police record, doesn't have the same probation or anything. Finally he wasn't sentenced to jail because he was a minor. He did get sentenced to 60 hours of labor with the proceeds going to her. I don't know whether 60 hours of unpaid (presumably) unpleasant labor is harsher than the very short "jail" sentence she got, personally I would say so but it probably depends on the person. Personally I would agree that his sentence wasn't harsh enough, but German law doesn't really like giving minors harsh sentences. I think her punishment for the threats of violence were completely reasonable.
- throw10920 2y ago
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