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I work on an organisation that does anti-corruption reporting. We have some software for that and the search box has "Vladimir Putin, TeliaSonera" as a placehol

by arp242 2y ago

I work on an organisation that does anti-corruption reporting. We have some software for that and the search box has "Vladimir Putin, TeliaSonera" as a placeholder example. Few months back a new hire quit on his second day when he saw that, because he was afraid he might get into trouble since he has to regularly travel to Russia (he was from, eh, somewhere in Eastern Europe or the Balkans or some such – I forgot). We had some discussions about whether that was completely paranoid and stupid, or whether it was somewhat reasonable/understandable. I was firmly in the last camp. Yes, maybe the chance of actually suffering consequences is small and in that sense it's paranoid, but people buy lottery tickets with a lower chance of winning. The arbitrariness of it is the point.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
Stifling thought crime does indeed seem best by punishing even trivial offenses. The gestapo cannot be everywhere, so encourage people to self censor or else.
cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
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quotz 2y ago
If he was from the balkans his reason was definitely false and he just didnt wanna work at your place. We dont have that here, especially not for leaders not from our countries
- arp242 2y ago
  Like I said, I don't recall exactly where he was from and can't be bothered to look it up, because it doesn't matter. But just because most people from location X don't have opinion Y, doesn't mean some don't. Either way, I certainly don't think he was making stuff up. He could have left at any time without any reason. We weren't holding him captive.
  - quotz 2y ago
    I reread your comment now I apologize. He was afraid of not getting arrested in Russia, rather then in his home country in the balkans. My bad.
    - arp242 2y ago
      Not so much arrested as denied entry.
aguaviva 2y ago
Unfortunately his concerns are all too reasonable. Here's a recent case where Putin's people had a dual Russian-American citizen arrested while visiting her family, and then slapped with a 12-year jail term for the crime of donating $51 to a humanitarian charity (from within the US): https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/08/15/us-russia-citizen-ksenia-karelina-treason-sentence/74808740007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/08/15/us-russ... While small, the chance of getting caught up in these shenanigans is far higher than that of buying a winning lottery ticket. And the potential penalties much worse than could be alleviated by most any prize won in the lottery. (If they were from one of Russia's allies, such as Serbia or Hungary, they probably wouldn't have much to worry about. But if they're from a NATO country, then definitely so).
- netsharc 2y ago
  She's definitely unlucky that Putin was looking to replenish his supply of prisoners he can exchange for gun runners, etc, in Western prisons...
- riehwvfbk 2y ago
  "Humanitarian" charity is not exactly a fitting description of the organization she donated to (though I agree that the sentence is out of proportion). To flip this around: imagine that someone was going through US customs and border clearance, and it became known that they donated money towards Russian FPV drones that hit Ukraine. Would you support giving this person a jail term or not? Now imagine that this person is a US citizen. Does that change your answer?
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Can you provide us with any indications that the charity in question (Razom) channelled money towards actual military drones for Ukraine? We see they had a project in 2022 that did provide some drones, but this seems to have been in the context of supporting search and rescue operations and the like, not military operations. Razom maintains that it does not provide military supplies of any kind. Let alone "weapons and ammunition" per the FSB charges. Overall the charges seem to have as much credibility as the initial charge against her of "swearing in a public place".

by arp242 2y ago

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago

Stifling thought crime does indeed seem best by punishing even trivial offenses. The gestapo cannot be everywhere, so encourage people to self censor or else.

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago

[dead]

quotz 2y ago

If he was from the balkans his reason was definitely false and he just didnt wanna work at your place. We dont have that here, especially not for leaders not from our countries

arp242 2y ago
Like I said, I don't recall exactly where he was from and can't be bothered to look it up, because it doesn't matter. But just because most people from location X don't have opinion Y, doesn't mean some don't. Either way, I certainly don't think he was making stuff up. He could have left at any time without any reason. We weren't holding him captive.
- quotz 2y ago
  I reread your comment now I apologize. He was afraid of not getting arrested in Russia, rather then in his home country in the balkans. My bad.
  - arp242 2y ago
    Not so much arrested as denied entry.

aguaviva 2y ago

Unfortunately his concerns are all too reasonable. Here's a recent case where Putin's people had a dual Russian-American citizen arrested while visiting her family, and then slapped with a 12-year jail term for the crime of donating $51 to a humanitarian charity (from within the US): https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/08/15/us-russia-citizen-ksenia-karelina-treason-sentence/74808740007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/08/15/us-russ... While small, the chance of getting caught up in these shenanigans is far higher than that of buying a winning lottery ticket. And the potential penalties much worse than could be alleviated by most any prize won in the lottery. (If they were from one of Russia's allies, such as Serbia or Hungary, they probably wouldn't have much to worry about. But if they're from a NATO country, then definitely so).

netsharc 2y ago
She's definitely unlucky that Putin was looking to replenish his supply of prisoners he can exchange for gun runners, etc, in Western prisons...
riehwvfbk 2y ago
"Humanitarian" charity is not exactly a fitting description of the organization she donated to (though I agree that the sentence is out of proportion). To flip this around: imagine that someone was going through US customs and border clearance, and it became known that they donated money towards Russian FPV drones that hit Ukraine. Would you support giving this person a jail term or not? Now imagine that this person is a US citizen. Does that change your answer?
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Can you provide us with any indications that the charity in question (Razom) channelled money towards actual military drones for Ukraine? We see they had a project in 2022 that did provide some drones, but this seems to have been in the context of supporting search and rescue operations and the like, not military operations. Razom maintains that it does not provide military supplies of any kind. Let alone "weapons and ammunition" per the FSB charges. Overall the charges seem to have as much credibility as the initial charge against her of "swearing in a public place".