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I think we should ask ourselves what we hope to find in (or do with) statistical happiness scores across interpersonal relationships. Especially at such a super

I think we should ask ourselves what we hope to find in (or do with) statistical happiness scores across interpersonal relationships. Especially at such a superficial "men vs women" level. Do we have good data that one demographic is disadvantaged and we trying build a case for societal change in or laws, norms, and customs to correct the imbalance? Awesome! Are we trying to justify, defend, or promote one decision (marry, stay single, cohabitate) over another? In that case, I say ignore the noise. If you've met one married couple... you've met one married couple. How you'll do in your relationship depends on two things surveys can't answer: you and your partner.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Even before reading the article, the inability to quantify happiness led me to assume the result will be garbage in, garbage out, which seems to be the conclusion. And there’s also the huge confounding variable that people with good financial trajectories are likelier to get married, and it’s been that way for many years.
- toddmorey 2y ago
  Yes, these sorts of "studies" that draw insane headline conclusions from horrible data really make me embarrassed to see social science together as a word pairing.
AStonesThrow 2y ago
The goal of the state (and the church) in promoting and supporting good marriages has historically and traditionally been to foster stable societies, strong homes, and obviously, population growth and replacement for the aging, infirm and dying. A society that encourages folks to marry, and to bear children, is a well-functioning society with a bright future. So what happens when marriage is no longer oriented toward child-bearing, marriage is ephemeral and easy to escape, and an increasing number of married people can't even physically conceive children? What happens when children can't count on a mother and father being at home for them, even before their adulthood? What happens when a child reaches maturity without any marriage prospect but must definitely become self-sufficient and enter the workforce, regardless of their sex or abilities, because there's no supportive family structure and they don't even know how to raise a child? What happens when men and women find they've reached adulthood without acquiring skills to run a household, cook and clean and do chores, and it's futile to support a spouse or depend on one, because they'll be divorcing you soon anyway, children or not?
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  “Well functioning” for whom? The purpose of the system is what it does. If people are not happy in an entrenched system, it is clearly within their interest to find ways and means to escape said system. Society has proven it wishes to optimize for metrics somewhat orthogonal to those of the individual, so operate accordingly (treating society adversarially; aggressively affirming reproductive freedoms and the ability to support one’s self without a partner or org driven by a belief system). (Religions are cults to attempt to enforce conformity and monogamy, while producing as many kids as possible; capitalism ran with this to extract from the cattle in the name of aggregate productivity; it has now started to fall apart with women robustly empowered; 43% of first marriages fail, so avoiding marriage is simply prudent risk management; 64% of young women say they just don't want children, compared to 50% of men) https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-exp... https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245199 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/02/jd-vance-childless-women-kamala-harris https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/0... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-so-many-single-women-without-children-are-happy https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/2... https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#what-explains-the-declining-fertility-rate https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#what-explains-the-...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    If a 43% failure rate is an unacceptable risk, and ceasing attempts is preferable to failing a second time, what does that say about taking tests in school, filling out job applications, scientific research and advancements, or compiling that code your boss told you to write?
    - 2y ago
sameoldtune 2y ago
This happens all the time. People take statistical data about a population and then try to apply it to individual members of that population. If 30% of men are less happy in a marriage, that doesn’t mean you’ll be 30% less happy or even that you will have a 30% chance of being less happy. Because you are not an “average man” (no one is).

lotsofpulp 2y ago

Even before reading the article, the inability to quantify happiness led me to assume the result will be garbage in, garbage out, which seems to be the conclusion. And there’s also the huge confounding variable that people with good financial trajectories are likelier to get married, and it’s been that way for many years.

toddmorey 2y ago
Yes, these sorts of "studies" that draw insane headline conclusions from horrible data really make me embarrassed to see social science together as a word pairing.

AStonesThrow 2y ago

The goal of the state (and the church) in promoting and supporting good marriages has historically and traditionally been to foster stable societies, strong homes, and obviously, population growth and replacement for the aging, infirm and dying. A society that encourages folks to marry, and to bear children, is a well-functioning society with a bright future. So what happens when marriage is no longer oriented toward child-bearing, marriage is ephemeral and easy to escape, and an increasing number of married people can't even physically conceive children? What happens when children can't count on a mother and father being at home for them, even before their adulthood? What happens when a child reaches maturity without any marriage prospect but must definitely become self-sufficient and enter the workforce, regardless of their sex or abilities, because there's no supportive family structure and they don't even know how to raise a child? What happens when men and women find they've reached adulthood without acquiring skills to run a household, cook and clean and do chores, and it's futile to support a spouse or depend on one, because they'll be divorcing you soon anyway, children or not?

toomuchtodo 2y ago
“Well functioning” for whom? The purpose of the system is what it does. If people are not happy in an entrenched system, it is clearly within their interest to find ways and means to escape said system. Society has proven it wishes to optimize for metrics somewhat orthogonal to those of the individual, so operate accordingly (treating society adversarially; aggressively affirming reproductive freedoms and the ability to support one’s self without a partner or org driven by a belief system). (Religions are cults to attempt to enforce conformity and monogamy, while producing as many kids as possible; capitalism ran with this to extract from the cattle in the name of aggregate productivity; it has now started to fall apart with women robustly empowered; 43% of first marriages fail, so avoiding marriage is simply prudent risk management; 64% of young women say they just don't want children, compared to 50% of men) https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-exp... https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245199 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/02/jd-vance-childless-women-kamala-harris https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/0... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-so-many-single-women-without-children-are-happy https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/2... https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#what-explains-the-declining-fertility-rate https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#what-explains-the-...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  If a 43% failure rate is an unacceptable risk, and ceasing attempts is preferable to failing a second time, what does that say about taking tests in school, filling out job applications, scientific research and advancements, or compiling that code your boss told you to write?
  - 2y ago

sameoldtune 2y ago

This happens all the time. People take statistical data about a population and then try to apply it to individual members of that population. If 30% of men are less happy in a marriage, that doesn’t mean you’ll be 30% less happy or even that you will have a 30% chance of being less happy. Because you are not an “average man” (no one is).