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I'm not sure how is it relevant to crypto. You let someone manage your private keys and they ran away with them. Don't do that? I had my money in a bank that f

I'm not sure how is it relevant to crypto. You let someone manage your private keys and they ran away with them. Don't do that? I had my money in a bank that failed last year. I still can't access my money, I'm probably going to lose some of it, and my mortgage might have to be repaid much sooner than expected. Fiat is a good investment?

maxbond 2y ago
Fiat is a terrible investment, as advertised. Central banks make it clear they are target inflation and that you should expect the asset to depreciate. I don't think anyone expects to get rich keeping their money under their mattress. May I ask if this bank was insured? What country was this in? I'm surprised, because this is something "tradfi" is usually very good at. At any rate, that really sucks and I wish you a full and speedy recovery of your money.
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  European Union, yes the bank was insured, but the related court case is huge and moves slowly. No, I wouldn't say this is something that traditional finance are good at.
hobs 2y ago
Well, sounds like you are trying hard not to draw the connection. Because pretty much only in crypto is owning a private key the same as permanent irrevocable access to your assets.
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  Not really different from fiat at all. If you give someone your password to authorize wire transfers, you're going to have the exact same problem as with crypto. Only if they stole the password then you might have a chance to apply for insurance claim. And unlike crypto, with fiat there is no way to have stuff like multi-signature wallets or smart contracts than only execute if the conditions are met, and safely. If you wire your money to a forex exchange that's actually a scam, you're probably never going to get the money back. If you use a decentralized crypto exchange based on smart contracts, there's no chance of a problem - or everybody relying on cryptography has a big problem. And of course, there's no way to have fiat money in a hardware wallet. You can have your bank token there but that's really not the same thing. A hardware wallet like Trezor will actually successfully protect your crypto, unlike a fiat bank with a nice MFA token - that just makes it harder to impersonate you, but it can't protect you from the bank itself. Overall, don't blame "crypto" for something that's happening on a daily basis with fiat too - scam forex/option trading exchanges were a thing much before Bitcoin. Cryptocurrencies are an improvement in this case because while not everybody makes use of the security possibilities, at least they exist and it's not hard to use them.
  - hobs 2y ago
    Alright, let's add "crypto, wire transfers, and forex/options trading" - does that make you happy? And all of those situations have some corporation you can sue if their mistake facilitated the theft - you think you're going going to get anything out of the crypto exchanges? Suing a bank sucks but its easier than suing nothing at all.
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      This is an article about suing the exchange and arresting its founder There was a corporation they could sue You’re grouping a lot of things together as the same thing just because crypto happened to be involved
    - throwaway48540 2y ago
      I recently got my money from MtGox. Apparently yes. Don't get me wrong, you have a point. It's just not about crypto currency at all, and yet you're presenting it as a fault of the technology. The technology is sound, problem is in the humans (ab|mis)using it, or just talking about it. Notice how in crypto scams there usually isn't any actual crypto currency - they simply make a web UI with nice charts. Why? Because their scam wouldn't work if they created an actual crypto currency. A scam exchange is the same thing - you essentially sent money to someone on the internet and they ran away with it. The method of transfer is irrelevant, and you have same options if you wired dollars or sent a crypto transaction. It has nothing to do with the many interesting security methods that modern asymmetric cryptography provides, that are utilized to make trustless transactions and smart contracts work on blockchains - you didn't utilize them at all, you simply transferred all your money away.
      - dotancohen 2y ago
        > I recently got my money from MtGox. Apparently yes. Did you get the whole sum back? Any interest on the ten years?
- bradgranath 2y ago
  ^ This

maxbond 2y ago

Fiat is a terrible investment, as advertised. Central banks make it clear they are target inflation and that you should expect the asset to depreciate. I don't think anyone expects to get rich keeping their money under their mattress. May I ask if this bank was insured? What country was this in? I'm surprised, because this is something "tradfi" is usually very good at. At any rate, that really sucks and I wish you a full and speedy recovery of your money.

throwaway48540 2y ago
European Union, yes the bank was insured, but the related court case is huge and moves slowly. No, I wouldn't say this is something that traditional finance are good at.

hobs 2y ago

Well, sounds like you are trying hard not to draw the connection. Because pretty much only in crypto is owning a private key the same as permanent irrevocable access to your assets.

throwaway48540 2y ago
Not really different from fiat at all. If you give someone your password to authorize wire transfers, you're going to have the exact same problem as with crypto. Only if they stole the password then you might have a chance to apply for insurance claim. And unlike crypto, with fiat there is no way to have stuff like multi-signature wallets or smart contracts than only execute if the conditions are met, and safely. If you wire your money to a forex exchange that's actually a scam, you're probably never going to get the money back. If you use a decentralized crypto exchange based on smart contracts, there's no chance of a problem - or everybody relying on cryptography has a big problem. And of course, there's no way to have fiat money in a hardware wallet. You can have your bank token there but that's really not the same thing. A hardware wallet like Trezor will actually successfully protect your crypto, unlike a fiat bank with a nice MFA token - that just makes it harder to impersonate you, but it can't protect you from the bank itself. Overall, don't blame "crypto" for something that's happening on a daily basis with fiat too - scam forex/option trading exchanges were a thing much before Bitcoin. Cryptocurrencies are an improvement in this case because while not everybody makes use of the security possibilities, at least they exist and it's not hard to use them.
- hobs 2y ago
  Alright, let's add "crypto, wire transfers, and forex/options trading" - does that make you happy? And all of those situations have some corporation you can sue if their mistake facilitated the theft - you think you're going going to get anything out of the crypto exchanges? Suing a bank sucks but its easier than suing nothing at all.
  - yieldcrv 2y ago
    This is an article about suing the exchange and arresting its founder There was a corporation they could sue You’re grouping a lot of things together as the same thing just because crypto happened to be involved
  - throwaway48540 2y ago
    I recently got my money from MtGox. Apparently yes. Don't get me wrong, you have a point. It's just not about crypto currency at all, and yet you're presenting it as a fault of the technology. The technology is sound, problem is in the humans (ab|mis)using it, or just talking about it. Notice how in crypto scams there usually isn't any actual crypto currency - they simply make a web UI with nice charts. Why? Because their scam wouldn't work if they created an actual crypto currency. A scam exchange is the same thing - you essentially sent money to someone on the internet and they ran away with it. The method of transfer is irrelevant, and you have same options if you wired dollars or sent a crypto transaction. It has nothing to do with the many interesting security methods that modern asymmetric cryptography provides, that are utilized to make trustless transactions and smart contracts work on blockchains - you didn't utilize them at all, you simply transferred all your money away.
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      > I recently got my money from MtGox. Apparently yes. Did you get the whole sum back? Any interest on the ten years?
bradgranath 2y ago
^ This