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> Brazil’s Supreme Court has announced that anyone in the country using a VPN to access X will be fined up to $8,874 a day. Uhm how will they actually know? Th

> Brazil’s Supreme Court has announced that anyone in the country using a VPN to access X will be fined up to $8,874 a day. Uhm how will they actually know? That's the whole point of public VPN.

trothamel 2y ago
A police officer looks over your shoulder, sees the X app open, and starts an investigation.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  Or because they are searching your computer and/or digital footprint for other reasons. It’s like seatbelt laws or driving without a license, some offenses exist which are usually identified only because some other potential offense else drew attention.
satao 2y ago
I assume it is by posts in the network made by high profile accounts
dragonwriter 2y ago
They will know, for example, because the person is demonstrated (to the degree required) to be posting to X and in Brazil at the same time.
woliveirajr 2y ago
1 - Wait until X complies with demands (having a legal representative in Brazil and so) 2 - Use some Court order to inform which Brazilians accounts made login during that time 3 - Give time to that users so they prove that whey were outside Brazil during the time 4 - Failing that, there's an assumption that the Brazilian user acessed the X while it was blocked and used some technology to circumvent it Not that hard. Indeed, very simple, and many users that are trying VPNs right now don't have this tech knowledge to consider the long-term effects of theis actions.
- blastonico 2y ago
  You're assuming that those people are using their old existing accounts, aren't you?
- josephcsible 2y ago
  3 and 4 sound like guilty-until-proven-innocent to me. I knew Brazil's new government was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    It's actually a lot better than Bolsonaro's was. And this is not a government decision, it's a judiciary one.
    - johnthewise 2y ago
      Are we supposed to believe judiciary this corrupt is acting alone? It's obviously gov play.
IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago
Im actually curious for a technical breakdown on how truly anonymous X accounts can be fined if theres no real link to the real life Brazilian. Can ISPs really find this out? Of course if Oops betray users -another win for Musk & Starlink- but short of that? Is tapping into ISP connections to known VPN IP addresses the only way?
ComputerGuru 2y ago
I have seen (multiple times just yesterday) random, vengeful Twitter users from other countries tag Brazilian police and investigators in replies to completely unrelated comments they disagreed with, saying something to the effect of “@op is using Twitter from Brazil, arrest them!” (How the PD is supposed to be checking their Twitter account amid the blockade, I don’t know.)
michaelt 2y ago
They can't, but arguably they don't need to. Look at China, for example. Personally I'm on social media to talk to my friends. If they block just 1/3rd of my friends, when there's a different non-blocked service my group of friends will move to it. A sort of reverse network effect. The ban and fine will deter advertisers, anyone making traceable payments, people using their real name, anyone operating a business presence, and anyone straight-laced who believes in following the law. Thanks to this fine, nobody's going to be in a hurry to encourage their friends to get a VPN. And thanks to app stores the state can also get the apps yanked from almost all phones. That's more than enough to trigger the reverse network effect. The aim here is to either get Twitter to the negotiating table, or to punish them. That's accomplished by blocking 90% of users, the last 10% really won't make a difference either way.

> Brazil’s Supreme Court has announced that anyone in the country using a VPN to access X will be fined up to $8,874 a day. Uhm how will they actually know? That's the whole point of public VPN.

trothamel 2y ago

A police officer looks over your shoulder, sees the X app open, and starts an investigation.

dragonwriter 2y ago
Or because they are searching your computer and/or digital footprint for other reasons. It’s like seatbelt laws or driving without a license, some offenses exist which are usually identified only because some other potential offense else drew attention.

satao 2y ago

I assume it is by posts in the network made by high profile accounts

dragonwriter 2y ago

They will know, for example, because the person is demonstrated (to the degree required) to be posting to X and in Brazil at the same time.

woliveirajr 2y ago

1 - Wait until X complies with demands (having a legal representative in Brazil and so) 2 - Use some Court order to inform which Brazilians accounts made login during that time 3 - Give time to that users so they prove that whey were outside Brazil during the time 4 - Failing that, there's an assumption that the Brazilian user acessed the X while it was blocked and used some technology to circumvent it Not that hard. Indeed, very simple, and many users that are trying VPNs right now don't have this tech knowledge to consider the long-term effects of theis actions.

blastonico 2y ago
You're assuming that those people are using their old existing accounts, aren't you?
josephcsible 2y ago
3 and 4 sound like guilty-until-proven-innocent to me. I knew Brazil's new government was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  It's actually a lot better than Bolsonaro's was. And this is not a government decision, it's a judiciary one.
  - johnthewise 2y ago
    Are we supposed to believe judiciary this corrupt is acting alone? It's obviously gov play.

IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago

Im actually curious for a technical breakdown on how truly anonymous X accounts can be fined if theres no real link to the real life Brazilian. Can ISPs really find this out? Of course if Oops betray users -another win for Musk & Starlink- but short of that? Is tapping into ISP connections to known VPN IP addresses the only way?

ComputerGuru 2y ago

I have seen (multiple times just yesterday) random, vengeful Twitter users from other countries tag Brazilian police and investigators in replies to completely unrelated comments they disagreed with, saying something to the effect of “@op is using Twitter from Brazil, arrest them!” (How the PD is supposed to be checking their Twitter account amid the blockade, I don’t know.)

michaelt 2y ago

They can't, but arguably they don't need to. Look at China, for example. Personally I'm on social media to talk to my friends. If they block just 1/3rd of my friends, when there's a different non-blocked service my group of friends will move to it. A sort of reverse network effect. The ban and fine will deter advertisers, anyone making traceable payments, people using their real name, anyone operating a business presence, and anyone straight-laced who believes in following the law. Thanks to this fine, nobody's going to be in a hurry to encourage their friends to get a VPN. And thanks to app stores the state can also get the apps yanked from almost all phones. That's more than enough to trigger the reverse network effect. The aim here is to either get Twitter to the negotiating table, or to punish them. That's accomplished by blocking 90% of users, the last 10% really won't make a difference either way.