5 ms·

I have noticed that sometime in the last decade the message of "it's okay to have a disability" has kind of morphed into, "it's okay to not be a functioning mem

I have noticed that sometime in the last decade the message of "it's okay to have a disability" has kind of morphed into, "it's okay to not be a functioning member of society because of your disability". Maybe it's just because I'm getting older, but I do see less resilience in college students today versus the start of my career.

exitb 2y ago
It seems like a much broader issue than disability. A general approach to difficulty switched from attempting to overcome, to acknowledging and accepting. That being said, this sounds suspiciously similar to what every older generation would say about every younger generation. I wonder if there's any data to back this up.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  We have lots of data showing that the kids really are different than their parents in a way never before seen in history You know it’s bad when public health officials are like: “hmm, the kids aren’t having sex, drinking, doing drugs (except vaping), or commuting vandelism/violence - but their mental health has cratered and they just sit at home playing fortnight or watching cat videos. Seriously, public health officials think that the kids are literally too good, too prude, and too tuned out. Maybe they’re right…
  - lawlessone 2y ago
    >You know it’s bad when public health officials are like: “hmm, the kids aren’t having sex, drinking, doing drugs (except vaping), or commuting vandelism/violence - but their mental health has cratered and they just sit at home playing fortnight or watching cat videos. Well most of those things are expensive. Bedrotting to cat videos is free. Smoking has always been an issue.
  - badwolf 2y ago
    I'd also point to a lack of third spaces for everyone from kids to elderly folks. Parents wait in a line of cars to drop their kids off at school, then pick them up in the same line of cars to drive them home. Maybe replacing malls and diners with social media and fortnite isn't the best thing we could be doing.
    - Der_Einzige 2y ago
      Asia is full of third places and has even worse issues than we do with these social problems. They are not the solution
Paul-Craft 2y ago
What exactly is "wrong" with not being a "functioning member of society" because of a disability?
- smeej 2y ago
  I don't think it's a problem when it's real, but for a long time, people with a variety of disabilities have been fighting to find ways they can contribute to society, not using it as an excuse not to have to. I don't have data on it, but there does feel like there's been a cultural shift to seeking exemption from the expectation that one contributes to society to the extent that one is able. I think what the strivers have noticed is that there's an inherent dignity that accompanies contributing what you can. People have compassion for people who are making efforts despite their challenges. But if there's a cultural shift away from expecting an attempt to contribute, people who would otherwise want to get the message that it's not worth it to provide them the support they would need. People would rather just subsidize their lives entirely than take on the more complicated task of helping them work, even when the work does end up net-positive after the help.
  - Paul-Craft 2y ago
    Let me shoot back with another cultural phenomenon: there's been article upon article over the past couple of years especially about how young people just plain have it rougher than their parents did starting out. Suppose this is true. Isn't it then individually rational to pursue some strategy other than working as hard as possible?
    - smeej 2y ago
      No. And no, to the extent that I can't even figure out how you're thinking it might be? "It's harder now, so I shouldn't try" is a complete non sequitur. If it's harder now, we have to work harder, not less hard. The only way I can come up with to try to bring rationality into your framing requires adding some other premise, like, "and I don't want the things previous generations had," but that's a giant change to the way you framed it.
- 2y ago

exitb 2y ago

It seems like a much broader issue than disability. A general approach to difficulty switched from attempting to overcome, to acknowledging and accepting. That being said, this sounds suspiciously similar to what every older generation would say about every younger generation. I wonder if there's any data to back this up.

Der_Einzige 2y ago
We have lots of data showing that the kids really are different than their parents in a way never before seen in history You know it’s bad when public health officials are like: “hmm, the kids aren’t having sex, drinking, doing drugs (except vaping), or commuting vandelism/violence - but their mental health has cratered and they just sit at home playing fortnight or watching cat videos. Seriously, public health officials think that the kids are literally too good, too prude, and too tuned out. Maybe they’re right…
- lawlessone 2y ago
  >You know it’s bad when public health officials are like: “hmm, the kids aren’t having sex, drinking, doing drugs (except vaping), or commuting vandelism/violence - but their mental health has cratered and they just sit at home playing fortnight or watching cat videos. Well most of those things are expensive. Bedrotting to cat videos is free. Smoking has always been an issue.
- badwolf 2y ago
  I'd also point to a lack of third spaces for everyone from kids to elderly folks. Parents wait in a line of cars to drop their kids off at school, then pick them up in the same line of cars to drive them home. Maybe replacing malls and diners with social media and fortnite isn't the best thing we could be doing.
  - Der_Einzige 2y ago
    Asia is full of third places and has even worse issues than we do with these social problems. They are not the solution

Paul-Craft 2y ago

What exactly is "wrong" with not being a "functioning member of society" because of a disability?

smeej 2y ago
I don't think it's a problem when it's real, but for a long time, people with a variety of disabilities have been fighting to find ways they can contribute to society, not using it as an excuse not to have to. I don't have data on it, but there does feel like there's been a cultural shift to seeking exemption from the expectation that one contributes to society to the extent that one is able. I think what the strivers have noticed is that there's an inherent dignity that accompanies contributing what you can. People have compassion for people who are making efforts despite their challenges. But if there's a cultural shift away from expecting an attempt to contribute, people who would otherwise want to get the message that it's not worth it to provide them the support they would need. People would rather just subsidize their lives entirely than take on the more complicated task of helping them work, even when the work does end up net-positive after the help.
- Paul-Craft 2y ago
  Let me shoot back with another cultural phenomenon: there's been article upon article over the past couple of years especially about how young people just plain have it rougher than their parents did starting out. Suppose this is true. Isn't it then individually rational to pursue some strategy other than working as hard as possible?
  - smeej 2y ago
    No. And no, to the extent that I can't even figure out how you're thinking it might be? "It's harder now, so I shouldn't try" is a complete non sequitur. If it's harder now, we have to work harder, not less hard. The only way I can come up with to try to bring rationality into your framing requires adding some other premise, like, "and I don't want the things previous generations had," but that's a giant change to the way you framed it.
2y ago