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Brazil to Fine Anyone Using a VPN to Access X $8,874 per Day; Elon Musk Responds
- djohnston 2y agoIt ain’t easy to make Elon look like the good guy these days. parabens!
- gigatexal 2y ago[flagged]
- gigatexal 2y agoTo be fair I don’t support the VPN thing — people should be free to use VPNs.
- traitfield 2y ago[dead]
- dmix 2y ago“Fighting back” by punishing Brazilians.
- gigatexal 2y agoPunishing Brazilians by not letting them access Twitter? Hah. Our definitions of punishment are ice ages apart. I’m waiting for Twitter to fail once and for all. Let all social networks go the way of the dodo.
- dazilcher 2y agoDictatorship is awesome while it happens to align with your dubious priorities. You should try to think ahead though
- gigatexal 2y agodictatorship? nothing is stopping Brazilians from posting on any other social network that exists or starting their own Brazilian version of twitter... people think before twitter free speech didn't exist or something
- johnthewise 2y agoWhat if they ban everything on the internet the way North Korea does? Would they be still free to start their own internet?
- gigatexal 2y agoWhat if I wake up a giant cockroach? What if tomorrow I win the lottery? How does the North Korea question follow? Are you insinuating that banning Twitter after breaking Brazilian law is some kind of slippery slope to banning all networks in Brazil turning it into a no-internet-having hellscape? That’s a bit extreme no? That’s not what’s happening here. Twitter and Elon apologists seem to think so. I don’t. As it stands now there are many alternatives for one to get their social media fix. Elon has learned that in the country where some 20% of his users are that laws exist, judges too, and he and his companies should abide the law. Who does he think he is? Trump? And able to flout all laws and things because he’s rich and powerful?
- traitfield 2y ago[flagged]
- johnthewise 2y agoHow are they fighting Elon Musk by forcing him to ban political figures in Brazil, him not complying and then censoring the whole site?
- satao 2y ago[flagged]
- wkat4242 2y ago> Brazil’s Supreme Court has announced that anyone in the country using a VPN to access X will be fined up to $8,874 a day. Uhm how will they actually know? That's the whole point of public VPN.
- trothamel 2y agoA police officer looks over your shoulder, sees the X app open, and starts an investigation.
- dragonwriter 2y agoOr because they are searching your computer and/or digital footprint for other reasons. It’s like seatbelt laws or driving without a license, some offenses exist which are usually identified only because some other potential offense else drew attention.
- satao 2y agoI assume it is by posts in the network made by high profile accounts
- dragonwriter 2y agoThey will know, for example, because the person is demonstrated (to the degree required) to be posting to X and in Brazil at the same time.
- woliveirajr 2y ago1 - Wait until X complies with demands (having a legal representative in Brazil and so) 2 - Use some Court order to inform which Brazilians accounts made login during that time 3 - Give time to that users so they prove that whey were outside Brazil during the time 4 - Failing that, there's an assumption that the Brazilian user acessed the X while it was blocked and used some technology to circumvent it Not that hard. Indeed, very simple, and many users that are trying VPNs right now don't have this tech knowledge to consider the long-term effects of theis actions.
- 2y ago
- pogue 2y agoThe while thing about fining people for using a VPN was rescinded almost immediately, per this NYT article [1] but the press is still running with it everywhere it seems. "Justice Moraes had also said that any person in Brazil who tried to still use X via common privacy software called a virtual private network, or VPN, could be fined nearly $9,000 a day. But after swift backlash across Brazil, including from academics who have supported him, he reversed that move in an amended order late Friday." [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/30/world/americas/brazil-elon-musk-x-blocked.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/30/world/americas/brazil-elo...
- TiredOfLife 2y agoFrom the same article: "He did not cut language saying that people who use VPN apps to access X in Brazil could face fines."
- squigz 2y agoFull text: > A correction was made on Aug. 30, 2024 > An earlier version of this article misstated how a Brazilian Supreme Court justice amended his order. He cut language ordering Apple and Google to prevent downloads of popular VPN apps in Brazil. He did not cut language saying that people who use VPN apps to access X in Brazil could face fines.
- hu3 2y agoIt was not fully rescinded. The VPN ban was temporarily suspended while companies reply to how difficult, damaging and cumbersome it would be to restore VPN apps in case the tribunal stance changes in the future. [1] Imo, somebody probably told the tribunal how dumb it would be to ban VPN apps since there are some legitimate uses (for example journalism). Do note that the $8k/day fine still stands, to citizens who use VPN to access X. [1] https://www.riotimesonline.com/moraes-revises-vpn-ban-as-brazil-debates-digital-rights-amid-legal-battle-with-musk/ https://www.riotimesonline.com/moraes-revises-vpn-ban-as-bra...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- akflg 2y ago[flagged]
- klasd 2y ago[flagged]
- andrewaylett 2y agoUp to $8,874. You can't just take the maximum possible fine and claim it'll apply to everyone.
- noname120 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_enforcement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_enforcement
- TMWNN 2y agoThis is not the effective defense of Brazil's punitive censorship that you think it is.
- andrewaylett 2y agoIf you're going to criticise the Brazilian judiciary, or anyone else for that matter, it's much more effective if you do so with something they're actually doing. Who said anything about defending it?
- TMWNN 2y agoOK, surely Brazil will fine people who use a VPN to access X no more than, say, 10% of the maximum fine. Brazilians will only have to pay $800 a day for the privilege of viewing this website. That makes it totally OK, right?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dangus 2y agoElon is playing a PR game here to make Brazil look more unreasonable than they are in the court of public opinion. Sure, there is a problematic aspect of this particular court and judge in Brazil. But Elon purposefully went beyond non-compliance to get Twitter banned on purpose to amplify his point of view. He closed up the Brazil office that was required to operate in the country. And before you say that Elon is doing this to fight for free speech, explain how being a “free speech absolutist” jives with his business presence in China, or his own suspension of left-leaning and Musk-critical accounts.
- johnthewise 2y ago>He closed up the Brazil office that was required to operate in the country. He said they froze the bank accounts of representatives and he is closing down the offices to protect those people so they wouldn't be retaliated against. If this is the case, would you agree with it being the reasonable choice of action?
- ripjaygn 2y agoMeanwhile the fine for driving drunk and endangering people in Brazil is only $500. $9000 for just visiting(not even posting) any Twitter page seems excessive. What if people that normally use a VPN or a remote job corporate VPN in another country accidently click or get redirected to a Twitter link? Twitter links are all over the web. List of countries where its illegal to access X: Russia, China, Iran, Myanmar, North Korea, Venezuela, Brazil and Turkmenistan
- xinayder 2y agoWell, not our fault that our laws have provisions for blocking an entire app or service if they fail to comply with the local law. See it as you like, I like to see it as putting Musk in his place and forcing him to comply with the local laws or leave.
- josephcsible 2y agoYou're happy that the pro-government-censorship side is putting the pro-right-to-free-speech side in its place?
- aaomidi 2y agoElon cares about free speech? Literally thousands of leftists have been banned since he’s taken over
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- blastonico 2y agoElon Musk doesn't care about Brazil, he's just pissed about a 3rd world judge messing around with his toy. This is fact. But it's also fact that this particular judge is arbitrarily punishing the entire country by applying such charges.
- aaomidi 2y agoThis same exact crowd was cheering on the US banning TikTok. Fascinating how the same folks (yes I looked at the history of some of the people here) have a completely different take with this situation.
- johnthewise 2y agoAre US citizens going to be punished up to 9k $ if they use vpn to access it? Is tiktok being banned because they didn't censor certain republican or democratic senators?
- aaomidi 2y agoThe US doesn’t need to fine anyone. They have full control over what Apple and Google allow on the AppStore. They also have full control over the infrastructure TikTok uses in the US.