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Awk is something that I think every programmer and especially every sysadmin should learn. 8 like the comparison at the end and have never heard of nnawk or bba

• Chris2048 2y ago
  > every programmer and especially every sysadmin should learn There are lots of things "every <tech position> should learn", usually by people who already did so. I still have a bunch of AI/ML items on that list too. What's the advantage of learning AWK over Perl?
  • rlonstein 2y ago
    - Awk is defined in POSIX - Awk is on more systems than Perl - Awk has more implementations than Perl
    • chrsig 2y ago
      awk is also a much smaller language than perl, so it's generally less effort to teach, learn, and read.
      • Chris2048 2y ago
        Is it not possible to learn a subset of perl?
        • chrsig 2y ago
          Learning any language more or less starts with learning a subset of it. Asking a new hire to "learn awk" vs "learn perl" have two very different time investments attached to them. Tasking someone with "learning a subset of perl" begets the question "what subset?", and a very exhausting conversation with someone(s) routinely asking "so?" follows. After spending a large amount of time re-litigating which subsets of perl features we want that awk already supplies.
        • kazinator 2y ago
          Which subset, and how do you ensure that every example you come across and everyone you work with sticks to that subset?
    • Chris2048 2y ago
      > Awk is defined in POSIX so? > Awk is on more systems than Perl By what metric? > Awk has more implementations than Perl so?
      • rlonstein 2y ago
        Whatever you think my opinion is of Perl you're probably wrong and the tone of your advocacy is kind of odd. Awk is older and as a part of POSIX the version found on unix-like environments will be (outside of extensions) compatible with others. If one or one without the extensions you want isn't present you can choose an implementation, even one in Go and it'll work. Perl, and I've been writing Perl since Perl4, doesn't have those characteristics. It's a much more powerful language that has changed over the years and it is not always present by default on a unix-like system. Because the maintainers value backward compatibility, even scripts written on Perl5.005 have a fair chance of working on a modern version but it's not assumed (and you shouldn't assume anything about modules). Because Awk is fossilized, you can assume that.
        • Chris2048 2y ago
          The first and last items in your list provide no reason why they are relevant, there is no "tone", nor "advocacy" - it's not "odd" to ask for that context, as given here.
          • kazinator 2y ago
            Awk is found in small-ish embedded systems that don't have no reason to waste space on Perl or anything like it. One reason for this is that the popular BusyBox project includes an Awk implementation: BusyBox Awk. Pretty much everywhere there is BusyBox, there is an Awk, unless someone went out of their way to compile it out of the BuxyBox binary.
    • emmelaich 2y ago
      POSIX not really relevant, more systems? Debatable. More implementations could be seen as a negative. Perl is more regular than Awk for the simple cases and is more usable for anything that isn't merely iterating over input. Of course, you shouldn't any of awk/perl/shell for tasks that aren't being run by you or are over say 20 lines long.
  • Snoddas 2y ago
    Both will get you where you want to go, but I don't think the usecase for perl and awk are the same. I reach for awk when my bash-scripts get a bit messy, perl is/was for when I want to build a small application (or nowdays python). But both perl and python require cpan/pip to get the most out of and with awk, I just nead awk.
    • LegionMammal978 2y ago
      Is there any particular functionality which does exist in awk, but doesn't exist in Perl or Python without third-party libraries? I've always found "Python + built-in modules" more than sufficient for my text-manipulation needs. (Also, it lets me handle binary data and character data in the same program, which is very useful for certain tasks.)
      • williamcotton 2y ago
        It’s just that awk has a concise syntax that can make for some really quick one-liners in your terminal prompt. Why spend a minute or two in Python if you can get an answer in 15 seconds instead?
        • kevindamm 2y ago
          > Why spend a minute or two in Python if you can get an answer in 15 seconds instead? Because you (or someone else) can run your Python later if needed, and have confidence the output will be the same. Sure, there are some times when a one-liner is needed, and you can always put that one line in a document for others to run. I can think of many times when I was on-call and needing to grep some data out of logs that wasn't already in a graph/dashboard somewhere. When time is of the essence, or if you're really really sure that you won't need to run the same or similar thing ever again, even if the data changes. I even changed my shell to make up-arrow go through commands with the same prefix instead of linearly traversing command history because I had so many useful one-liners I re-ran later. But as I've gotten more experienced, I've come to appreciate the value of committing those one liners to code as early as possible, and having that code reviewed. Sometimes a really useful tool will even emerge from that.
  • shawn_w 2y ago
    I put off learning awk for literal decades because I knew perl, but then I picked it up and wish I had done so earlier. I still prefer perl for a lot of use cases, but in one-liners, awk's syntax makes working with specific fields a lot more convenient than perl's autosplit mode. `$1` instead of `$F[0]`, basically.
    • Chris2048 2y ago
      but, then couldn't you use "cut" as even simpler syntax?
      • shawn_w 2y ago
        Maybe if all you want to do is unconditionally extract certain columns from your data. But even in that case cut doesn't let you use a regular expression as the field delimiter.
      • stouset 2y ago
        `cut` doesn’t work natively on data that’s been aligned with multiple spaces, you need a `tr -s` pass first. It also doesn’t let you reorder or splice together fields. I used it for years but now that I have a working understanding of `awk` I have never looked back.
        • arp242 2y ago
          FreeBSD cut has -w for that ("split by any amount of whitespace"), but that never made it into GNU cut. Sad, because it's mega useful. Of course awk can do much more, but if all you want is "| awk '{print $2}'" then "cut -wf2" is so much more convenient.
          • stouset 2y ago
            Reordering and splicing are common enough that it’s easier just to always use awk, since the cost of rewriting one to the other is significantly higher.
  • mbivert 2y ago
    > What's the advantage of learning AWK over Perl? Getting awk in your head (fully) takes about an afternoon: reading the (small and exhaustive) man page, going through a few examples, trying to build a few toys with it. Perl requires much, much more effort. Great gain/investment ratio.
    • Chris2048 2y ago
      another commenter said something similar - But nothing says you have to learn everything - you can learn a subset of perl that does everything you would want to do (with awk), would that take as long?
      • mbivert 2y ago
        Yup, but defining that subset isn't free! Perhaps some people did the work already, but I'd still be cautious as to how much Perl one actually need to know to use those comfortably.
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  • philipov 2y ago
    Every linux system comes with awk already on it. Perl has to be installed, and might not be available on a system you don't control.
• hulium 2y ago
  awk is also not hard to understand, scroll through the Wikipedia page for a few minutes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWK#Structure_of_AWK_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWK#Structure_of_AWK_programs It runs an action for each line in the input (optionally filtered by regex). You get automatic variables $1,$2... for the words in the line split by spaces. The syntax is almost like a simple subset of Javascript. Builtin functions are similar to C standard library. If you have input in text that is separated in columns with a delimiter, and you want do simple operations on that (filter, map, aggregate), it can be done quickly with awk. That's all you need to know about awk.
  • penguin_booze 2y ago
    I often find the missing support for slicing (like fields from 2-6, as `cut -f` can do) a handicap. I tend reach for jq instead of awk, these days.
• joemi 2y ago
  > Awk is something that I think every programmer and especially every sysadmin should learn I'd argue that it should be every programmer who doesn't already know a scripting language like Ruby or Python. If you already know a scripting language, chances are the time saved between writing an Awk one-liner and quickly banging out a script in your preferred language is negligible. And if you ever need to revisit it and maybe expand it, it'll be much easier to do in your preferred scripting language than in Awk, especially the more complex it gets. I'm speaking from experience on this last point... At my work I wrote a very simple file transformer (move this column to here, only show lines where this other column is greater than X, etc etc) in Awk many years ago. It was quick and easy and did what it needed to. It was a little too big to be reasonable as a one-liner, though not by very much at all. But as we changed and expanded what it needed to do, it ended up getting to be a few thousand lines of Awk, and that was a nightmare. One day I got so fed up with it that I rewrote it all in Ruby in my free time and that's how it's been ever since, and it's soooo much better that way. Could have saved myself a lot of trouble if it were that way from the beginning, but I had no idea at that time it would grow beyond the practically-a-one-liner size, so I thought Awk would be a great choice.