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The court orders for Twitter in Brazil were way more tame and based on judicial procedures than orders that Elon followed from Turkey and other less democratic

by piva00 2y ago

The court orders for Twitter in Brazil were way more tame and based on judicial procedures than orders that Elon followed from Turkey and other less democratic countries. There's no visible rhyme or reason why he's fighting the Brazilian courts much harder than orders from other less democratic countries, something else is happening unrelated to free speech or any lip service he pays to.

boesboes 2y ago
> other less democratic countries That's your rhyme and reason if you ask me, he just loooooves (wannabe) dictators
seydor 2y ago
He may be doing it for personal ego reasons. But OTOH it is pointless to 'fight' the judicial system of e.g. Russia, or flawed democracies like Turkey which stage a coup. OTOH brazil is somewhat more democratic and it makes sense to appeal to their democratic institutions. <Mandatory "i don't like elon" to avoid flagging />
- piva00 2y ago
  > But OTOH it is pointless to 'fight' the judicial system of e.g. Russia, or flawed democracies like Turkey which stage a coup. OTOH brazil is somewhat more democratic and it makes sense to appeal to their democratic institutions. Even when giving Elon some leeway to have reasonable doubt I still believe the argument falls flat when he attempts to coat it with his "free speech defender" persona against Brazil but not against dictatorships. If he's willing to challenge Brazilian courts to the point where Twitter becomes unavailable to the public why wouldn't he do the same in places with much less freedom of speech? It simply doesn't make sense using his public rationale, if he was a free speech absolutist he wouldn't allow Twitter to exist in places where free speech is impossible and is gagged by dictators' court orders. He's fighting Brazilian courts way too hard given his stance on Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. Is he a puppet? Has he ulterior motives in Brazil? We can't really know from public information but that there's something fishy and wrong going under wraps, it is.
defrost 2y ago
> There's no visible rhyme or reason why .. Somebody made a case in an earlier thread (that I haven't had time to pursue) that Brazil has the largest lithium mining company (not fields or mines) with standing contracts in South America .. and they claimed that Musk wants to seed unrest | see Bolsonaro (or his party) back in to get a better deal on raw materials for his battery factories in Texas. That has a plausible ring to it (but, again, I stress I haven't chased the details).
- diegoholiveira 2y ago
  Australians already own those lithium mines. The largest here in Brazil is very close to my hometown.
  - tmottabr 2y ago
    Latin america have the world largest Lithium reserves, specially accross Argentina, Bolivia and Chile being the three largest and Brazil being the 7th.. The largest lithium mining company in the region is Sigma Lithium.. Tesla was negotiating to buy the Sigma Lithium but now the Chinese BYD is the favorite.. [0] [1] China companies are currently owning the EV market in Brazil , and many other developing contries, and they have plans for both cars and batteries factories in Brazil, but they need access to lithium for that and so they are going for the lithium mining companies as well.. Musk not only need the lithium but he also want to block the grow of Chinese companies that are owning the market in many developing countries where Tesla is not present and are even growing fast in Europe.. Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-considering-bid-sigma-lithium-bloomberg-news-2023-02-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-considering-bid-sig... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/3c55d69b-6932-4255-ad79-daeced372129 https://www.ft.com/content/3c55d69b-6932-4255-ad79-daeced372...
    - diegoholiveira 2y ago
      > Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. Things in Brazil are not simple as that. Bolsonaro, the latest right wing president, did more business with china and russia than expected. He was one of the first chief of state to fly to Moscou when Russia invade Ukraine, to reinsure brazil would be neutral on this war. (same position of Lula).
hkt 2y ago
What's happening is clear: Elon doesn't like Lula, the Brazilian president. Lula is left wing: his predecessor was a Trump-esque idiot. I'd guess many of Lula's actual policies harm the Musk's material interests in some way, or are just things he doesn't like. It might literally just be that Musk has heard Lula is left wing and therefore wants to make life as hard as possible.
- lynx23 2y ago
  Thats where we are now. You also couldn't refrain from calling a political oponent "Trump-esque idiot". Imagine what you would do to them if you had enough money to actually go out for a fight?
  - hkt 2y ago
    Not all political opponents are idiots or Trump-esque
  - bradgranath 2y ago
    Call him a Trumpesque Idiot from my personal social media platform?
- fmajid 2y ago
  Judge Moraes has had his share of run-ins with Lula, and can hardly be described as a stooge for the Left. What he has been doing is go after Brazil's version of the Jan 6th insurrectionists, whom Musk is congenial to along with other far-right causes. As Germany showed, if you don't go after thugs when they are still in their inept beer-hall putsch phase, it is too late afterwards.
  - diegoholiveira 2y ago
    The process that makes X be blocked here in Brazil started in 2019, way before Jan 6th.
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    No, the judge's very first action after getting censorship super powers was to censor "fake news" about the official that gave him those powers, which later turned to be "true news". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41425086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41425086
matheusmoreira 2y ago
> There's no visible rhyme or reason why he's fighting the Brazilian courts much harder than orders from other less democratic countries I've read speculation that he's after our lithium mines. Not sure how true that is yet but I don't doubt it.

by piva00 2y ago

boesboes 2y ago

> other less democratic countries That's your rhyme and reason if you ask me, he just loooooves (wannabe) dictators

seydor 2y ago

He may be doing it for personal ego reasons. But OTOH it is pointless to 'fight' the judicial system of e.g. Russia, or flawed democracies like Turkey which stage a coup. OTOH brazil is somewhat more democratic and it makes sense to appeal to their democratic institutions. <Mandatory "i don't like elon" to avoid flagging />

piva00 2y ago
> But OTOH it is pointless to 'fight' the judicial system of e.g. Russia, or flawed democracies like Turkey which stage a coup. OTOH brazil is somewhat more democratic and it makes sense to appeal to their democratic institutions. Even when giving Elon some leeway to have reasonable doubt I still believe the argument falls flat when he attempts to coat it with his "free speech defender" persona against Brazil but not against dictatorships. If he's willing to challenge Brazilian courts to the point where Twitter becomes unavailable to the public why wouldn't he do the same in places with much less freedom of speech? It simply doesn't make sense using his public rationale, if he was a free speech absolutist he wouldn't allow Twitter to exist in places where free speech is impossible and is gagged by dictators' court orders. He's fighting Brazilian courts way too hard given his stance on Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. Is he a puppet? Has he ulterior motives in Brazil? We can't really know from public information but that there's something fishy and wrong going under wraps, it is.

defrost 2y ago

> There's no visible rhyme or reason why .. Somebody made a case in an earlier thread (that I haven't had time to pursue) that Brazil has the largest lithium mining company (not fields or mines) with standing contracts in South America .. and they claimed that Musk wants to seed unrest | see Bolsonaro (or his party) back in to get a better deal on raw materials for his battery factories in Texas. That has a plausible ring to it (but, again, I stress I haven't chased the details).

diegoholiveira 2y ago
Australians already own those lithium mines. The largest here in Brazil is very close to my hometown.
- tmottabr 2y ago
  Latin america have the world largest Lithium reserves, specially accross Argentina, Bolivia and Chile being the three largest and Brazil being the 7th.. The largest lithium mining company in the region is Sigma Lithium.. Tesla was negotiating to buy the Sigma Lithium but now the Chinese BYD is the favorite.. [0] [1] China companies are currently owning the EV market in Brazil , and many other developing contries, and they have plans for both cars and batteries factories in Brazil, but they need access to lithium for that and so they are going for the lithium mining companies as well.. Musk not only need the lithium but he also want to block the grow of Chinese companies that are owning the market in many developing countries where Tesla is not present and are even growing fast in Europe.. Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-considering-bid-sigma-lithium-bloomberg-news-2023-02-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-considering-bid-sig... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/3c55d69b-6932-4255-ad79-daeced372129 https://www.ft.com/content/3c55d69b-6932-4255-ad79-daeced372...
  - diegoholiveira 2y ago
    > Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. Things in Brazil are not simple as that. Bolsonaro, the latest right wing president, did more business with china and russia than expected. He was one of the first chief of state to fly to Moscou when Russia invade Ukraine, to reinsure brazil would be neutral on this war. (same position of Lula).

hkt 2y ago

What's happening is clear: Elon doesn't like Lula, the Brazilian president. Lula is left wing: his predecessor was a Trump-esque idiot. I'd guess many of Lula's actual policies harm the Musk's material interests in some way, or are just things he doesn't like. It might literally just be that Musk has heard Lula is left wing and therefore wants to make life as hard as possible.

lynx23 2y ago
Thats where we are now. You also couldn't refrain from calling a political oponent "Trump-esque idiot". Imagine what you would do to them if you had enough money to actually go out for a fight?
- hkt 2y ago
  Not all political opponents are idiots or Trump-esque
- bradgranath 2y ago
  Call him a Trumpesque Idiot from my personal social media platform?
fmajid 2y ago
Judge Moraes has had his share of run-ins with Lula, and can hardly be described as a stooge for the Left. What he has been doing is go after Brazil's version of the Jan 6th insurrectionists, whom Musk is congenial to along with other far-right causes. As Germany showed, if you don't go after thugs when they are still in their inept beer-hall putsch phase, it is too late afterwards.
- diegoholiveira 2y ago
  The process that makes X be blocked here in Brazil started in 2019, way before Jan 6th.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  No, the judge's very first action after getting censorship super powers was to censor "fake news" about the official that gave him those powers, which later turned to be "true news". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41425086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41425086

matheusmoreira 2y ago

> There's no visible rhyme or reason why he's fighting the Brazilian courts much harder than orders from other less democratic countries I've read speculation that he's after our lithium mines. Not sure how true that is yet but I don't doubt it.