3 ms·

The real tragedy is the proprietary bootcode.bin gpu code that is a blackbox and we don't have the source code for. How horrible that a tinkering/hobbies proje

The real tragedy is the proprietary bootcode.bin gpu code that is a blackbox and we don't have the source code for. How horrible that a tinkering/hobbies project has to have these hidden secret blackboxes that can't be modified.

pandemic_region 2y ago
I'm guessing that having the source of the bootcode available would allow for extreme tinkering to the point that RPI can no longer guarantee it functioning properly? Or maybe it has something to do with proprietary drivers loading? Curious as well what's in there that they need to keep it closed source.
- pta2002 2y ago
  Well, you can already do extreme tinkering to the point that RPi can no longer guarantee it functioning properly :) IIRC it's just that the bootcode.bin file is provided by Broadcom, and not the RPi foundation, so they can't open source it because they don't have the license to do so (this isn't the only proprietary blob in the default Pi distribution, but most of the other ones have open source alternatives/aren't that necessary/are open source now that they use the RP1 chip instead of broadcom peripherals). There's similar, slightly more open arrangements, with the Pi Pico W, where they can't provide the firmware for the Wifi chip, but they can provide a library to interface with it, with the caveat that the license _only_ allows for that library to be used with the RP* family of microcontrollers [1] [1]: https://github.com/georgerobotics/cyw43-driver/blob/faf36381bad1f668a30172b6336c9a970966ef4c/LICENSE.RP https://github.com/georgerobotics/cyw43-driver/blob/faf36381...
  - jonatron 2y ago
    Other than broadcom licensing, I can guess that there's a warranty issue because the firmware controls the voltage.
    - vbezhenar 2y ago
      You can kill Pi with a thousand ways. I don’t really understand how could a warranty work outside of obvious cases…
      - dezgeg 2y ago
        The firmware is in control of the clocks, and in case too high of a clock is specified in config.txt it burns a 'warranty void' fuse.
lproven 2y ago
> The real tragedy is the proprietary bootcode.bin gpu code that is a blackbox and we don't have the source code for. The Pi firmware is ThreadX, later bought by Microsoft and renamed Azure RTOS. It is now FOSS. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/28/microsoft_opens_sources_threadx/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/28/microsoft_opens_sourc... That does not mean the whole Pi firmware is automatically FOSS -- drivers are not -- but they could if they wanted.

pandemic_region 2y ago

I'm guessing that having the source of the bootcode available would allow for extreme tinkering to the point that RPI can no longer guarantee it functioning properly? Or maybe it has something to do with proprietary drivers loading? Curious as well what's in there that they need to keep it closed source.

pta2002 2y ago
Well, you can already do extreme tinkering to the point that RPi can no longer guarantee it functioning properly :) IIRC it's just that the bootcode.bin file is provided by Broadcom, and not the RPi foundation, so they can't open source it because they don't have the license to do so (this isn't the only proprietary blob in the default Pi distribution, but most of the other ones have open source alternatives/aren't that necessary/are open source now that they use the RP1 chip instead of broadcom peripherals). There's similar, slightly more open arrangements, with the Pi Pico W, where they can't provide the firmware for the Wifi chip, but they can provide a library to interface with it, with the caveat that the license _only_ allows for that library to be used with the RP* family of microcontrollers [1] [1]: https://github.com/georgerobotics/cyw43-driver/blob/faf36381bad1f668a30172b6336c9a970966ef4c/LICENSE.RP https://github.com/georgerobotics/cyw43-driver/blob/faf36381...
- jonatron 2y ago
  Other than broadcom licensing, I can guess that there's a warranty issue because the firmware controls the voltage.
  - vbezhenar 2y ago
    You can kill Pi with a thousand ways. I don’t really understand how could a warranty work outside of obvious cases…
    - dezgeg 2y ago
      The firmware is in control of the clocks, and in case too high of a clock is specified in config.txt it burns a 'warranty void' fuse.

lproven 2y ago

> The real tragedy is the proprietary bootcode.bin gpu code that is a blackbox and we don't have the source code for. The Pi firmware is ThreadX, later bought by Microsoft and renamed Azure RTOS. It is now FOSS. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/28/microsoft_opens_sources_threadx/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/28/microsoft_opens_sourc... That does not mean the whole Pi firmware is automatically FOSS -- drivers are not -- but they could if they wanted.