3 ms·

Which other platform would you expect it to be for?

by saagarjha 2y ago

fulafel 2y ago
It advertises as an alternative to Docker Desktop which is for Windows and Linux as well.
- pxc 2y ago
  The thing Docker Desktop (and analogues like Podman Desktop, Rancher Desktop, etc.) is useful for (a) is setting up a Linux guest VM so that you can run Linux containers and (b) doing some socket forwarding magic so that when you run the `docker` CLI on the host operating system, it acts as a remote client for dockerd running on the guest. There's little point in running Docker Desktop on Linux because you don't need either (a) or (b) on Linux (nor the equivalents for Podman or your favorite Kubernetes distribution). You get the overhead and annoyances of running all your containers under a second OS running under your first one for what— an Electron GUI? I guess it's something if you're really worried about container escapes during local development. But it doesn't generally seem worth it to me. The other thing OrbStack integrates is letting you spin up many 'machines' that have fast startup and efficiently share resources with each other. But OrbStack achieves that by running long-lived system containers on a single guest VM. If you're on Linux, you can just do that directly, just like the Docker containers, using the same tools¹ OrbStack uses under the hood. The CLI for Incus (a descendant if lxd, associated with Linux containers and LXC) is really pretty nice, too. OrbStack has a lot of polish and performance optimizations that make it really competitive against other tools like it. There's lots of thoughtful touches in it beyond the basic ideas outlined above. But I wouldn't recommend any tool in its class to someone running a Linux desktop/laptop/workstation who wants to use containers in development. Just use the real things directly and learn the normal, universal CLIs. -- 1: https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/ https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
knallfrosch 2y ago
Asked the other way around, why would anyone think a Docker container runner would be tied to MacOS?
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Because Windows users are unlikely to care about Docker and Linux people don’t pay for stuff
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    I work on Windows, but mostly just use it for windowing. Almost all my work is done in WSL2 and Docker. The only things running natively are my IDE, my web browser, and slack.
  - vultour 2y ago
    This is hilarious and perfectly sums up my experience with Mac developers. Half of them have no idea Docker Desktop actually installs a Linux VM. They think how amazing their incredibly expensive system is, yet it's mostly a glorified text editor. The WSL experience on Windows convinced me buying a MacOS machine makes no sense.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Glad the humor landed
    - eropple 2y ago
      So I use WSL2 regularly on Windows, but I don't agree at all that buying a Mac doesn't make sense. WSL2 is great, and Windows 10/11 are fine after doing some cleanup...on a desktop. My experience with Windows on even modern laptops is pretty bad. It's very hard to find something with the build quality and affordances of a Mac. Razer makes a good machine but tbh I'd be embarrassed to bring one to a meeting, and I don't like how newer Thinkpads feel and I don't trust Framework to exist in a few years. It's then complicated while seeking reasonably comparable specs--and I'm not a "oh Apple Silicon sounds warmer" sort of person, amd64 is just fine with me, but AMD's high-end IGPs generally keep pace with base-model Macbooks, and start to fall behind pretty significantly when you move up to a Pro or a Max. You can add a discrete GPU, but, me, I like battery life, and mobile dGPUs are a mess of compromises anyway. Even if you get over that hurdle, I think Windows feels bad when you're using a touchpad. They haven't cracked that one despite how long they've had to work on it. I wouldn't want to work on a Windows laptop without an external trackball; I carry one with my Mac but rarely use it unless I'm going to be working for a pretty long stretch and I want to save my hands. Windows is still generally my pick for desktops for a lot of reasons (I don't even dual-boot Linux right now!) but this kind of sneering is weird and uncalled-for.

Which other platform would you expect it to be for?

fulafel 2y ago

It advertises as an alternative to Docker Desktop which is for Windows and Linux as well.

pxc 2y ago
The thing Docker Desktop (and analogues like Podman Desktop, Rancher Desktop, etc.) is useful for (a) is setting up a Linux guest VM so that you can run Linux containers and (b) doing some socket forwarding magic so that when you run the `docker` CLI on the host operating system, it acts as a remote client for dockerd running on the guest. There's little point in running Docker Desktop on Linux because you don't need either (a) or (b) on Linux (nor the equivalents for Podman or your favorite Kubernetes distribution). You get the overhead and annoyances of running all your containers under a second OS running under your first one for what— an Electron GUI? I guess it's something if you're really worried about container escapes during local development. But it doesn't generally seem worth it to me. The other thing OrbStack integrates is letting you spin up many 'machines' that have fast startup and efficiently share resources with each other. But OrbStack achieves that by running long-lived system containers on a single guest VM. If you're on Linux, you can just do that directly, just like the Docker containers, using the same tools¹ OrbStack uses under the hood. The CLI for Incus (a descendant if lxd, associated with Linux containers and LXC) is really pretty nice, too. OrbStack has a lot of polish and performance optimizations that make it really competitive against other tools like it. There's lots of thoughtful touches in it beyond the basic ideas outlined above. But I wouldn't recommend any tool in its class to someone running a Linux desktop/laptop/workstation who wants to use containers in development. Just use the real things directly and learn the normal, universal CLIs. -- 1: https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/ https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

knallfrosch 2y ago

Asked the other way around, why would anyone think a Docker container runner would be tied to MacOS?

saagarjha 2y ago
Because Windows users are unlikely to care about Docker and Linux people don’t pay for stuff
- withinboredom 2y ago
  I work on Windows, but mostly just use it for windowing. Almost all my work is done in WSL2 and Docker. The only things running natively are my IDE, my web browser, and slack.
- vultour 2y ago
  This is hilarious and perfectly sums up my experience with Mac developers. Half of them have no idea Docker Desktop actually installs a Linux VM. They think how amazing their incredibly expensive system is, yet it's mostly a glorified text editor. The WSL experience on Windows convinced me buying a MacOS machine makes no sense.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Glad the humor landed
  - eropple 2y ago
    So I use WSL2 regularly on Windows, but I don't agree at all that buying a Mac doesn't make sense. WSL2 is great, and Windows 10/11 are fine after doing some cleanup...on a desktop. My experience with Windows on even modern laptops is pretty bad. It's very hard to find something with the build quality and affordances of a Mac. Razer makes a good machine but tbh I'd be embarrassed to bring one to a meeting, and I don't like how newer Thinkpads feel and I don't trust Framework to exist in a few years. It's then complicated while seeking reasonably comparable specs--and I'm not a "oh Apple Silicon sounds warmer" sort of person, amd64 is just fine with me, but AMD's high-end IGPs generally keep pace with base-model Macbooks, and start to fall behind pretty significantly when you move up to a Pro or a Max. You can add a discrete GPU, but, me, I like battery life, and mobile dGPUs are a mess of compromises anyway. Even if you get over that hurdle, I think Windows feels bad when you're using a touchpad. They haven't cracked that one despite how long they've had to work on it. I wouldn't want to work on a Windows laptop without an external trackball; I carry one with my Mac but rarely use it unless I'm going to be working for a pretty long stretch and I want to save my hands. Windows is still generally my pick for desktops for a lot of reasons (I don't even dual-boot Linux right now!) but this kind of sneering is weird and uncalled-for.