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This is so shortsighted. GenAI has dramatically increased access to creative expression for likely tens of millions of people. It shouldn't be shunned, but rath

This is so shortsighted. GenAI has dramatically increased access to creative expression for likely tens of millions of people. It shouldn't be shunned, but rather used as a gateway to developing a deeper and more expressive skillset. They're shooting themselves in the foot. EDIT: What's with the downvotes? Other "pro-genAI" comments are getting downvoted too. How is it that a community of builders and hackers are so against this?

bugglebeetle 2y ago
> dramatically increased access to creative expression for likely tens of millions of people This is like saying keyboards suddenly made tens of millions of people novelists and shows deep confusion about what constitutes creative expression.
- poorinterview 2y ago
  Yes, the keyboard likely increased access to expression. I can type more at pace with my thoughts than I can write, and for far longer. And something as little as modifying a meme is a form of creative expression.
  - maxbond 2y ago
    Have you ever stared at a blank page (canvas, editor widow, ...) and wanted very badly to put something there but been unable to do so? Is there a technological tool[1] which would've solved that problem? [1] Technological as opposed to, say, a mindfulness technique, which some would describe as a tool.
- protocolture 2y ago
  Nah the commenter you are responding to is correct. I dont share any of my content with people. I dont think its any good. But I can sit down with 3 AI's and bash out a story that I enjoy, that I largely controlled the creation of. Heck you can do it in multiple ways. I can have NovelAI fix the rough edges of my writing. I can have ChatGPT use a format like Lester Dents and simply ask me for the creative bits in between. I can ask it to help me follow a formal novel outline process. Years ago I wanted to commission some art from a Deviant Art account. I waited 3 weeks for the response that they didnt have the time and suggested other people. I am not saying AI should replace that bloke, and it hasnt he now has a steady high paying gig, but the time for me to go from brainfart to execution has drastically decreased. The creative input I have in the process hasn't changed. Its all critique and develop right. Heck most tools let me highlight the problem and rework just that part of the image. Ultimately I enjoy it as creativity. Even if people look down their nose at it, its working the same muscles just faster.
  - bugglebeetle 2y ago
    > Even if people look down their nose at it, its working the same muscles just faster. Unfortunately, this isn’t true. It’s just bathing in the median of others people work, at best akin to playing video games (vs making them). There’s no shame in it, I love playing games too, but if you ever want to rise to the level of independent creative expression, you’ll have to give up these crutches, confront your own limitations, and risk failure to overcome them. No challenge, no change.
    - protocolture 2y ago
      Man I know of a "learn to write" strategy where you get a pen, and literally word for word copy the author you are trying to emulate. Just completely reproduce their content, over and over until you "master" their "voice". Artists copy famous paintings for the same reason. Its stupid to presume that no artist ever "bathed" in the the median of other peoples work before 2021.
      - bugglebeetle 2y ago
        Yes, but it’s the act of doing the actual copying that teaches you how precisely to recreate, and more importantly, to question and critically engage with the choices and thought that went into the work, such that you develop those muscles yourselves. When a machine does all of that for you, you’ve missed the entire point of the exercise, which isn’t to copy or emulate, but to learn how to do the same things independently in doing so.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
Like robbing a bank gives increased access to cash? But it's all to gue in cheek, cuz I use Claude for writing python all the time.
dragonwriter 2y ago
> This is so shortsighted. It would only be shortsighted if it was some kind of enforceable-in-the-future commitment. As it is, it is an excellent short-term way to grab mindshare with a sizable chunk of the target market by what amounts to political signalling that costs nothing, either in current resources or in foreclosing future options.
xeyownt 2y ago
Fully agree. Generative AI can be a great tool, not only to boost creativity or inspiration but also to produce faster and better documents (eg. presentation, etc). It can be very helpful in education too.

bugglebeetle 2y ago

> dramatically increased access to creative expression for likely tens of millions of people This is like saying keyboards suddenly made tens of millions of people novelists and shows deep confusion about what constitutes creative expression.

poorinterview 2y ago
Yes, the keyboard likely increased access to expression. I can type more at pace with my thoughts than I can write, and for far longer. And something as little as modifying a meme is a form of creative expression.
- maxbond 2y ago
  Have you ever stared at a blank page (canvas, editor widow, ...) and wanted very badly to put something there but been unable to do so? Is there a technological tool[1] which would've solved that problem? [1] Technological as opposed to, say, a mindfulness technique, which some would describe as a tool.
protocolture 2y ago
Nah the commenter you are responding to is correct. I dont share any of my content with people. I dont think its any good. But I can sit down with 3 AI's and bash out a story that I enjoy, that I largely controlled the creation of. Heck you can do it in multiple ways. I can have NovelAI fix the rough edges of my writing. I can have ChatGPT use a format like Lester Dents and simply ask me for the creative bits in between. I can ask it to help me follow a formal novel outline process. Years ago I wanted to commission some art from a Deviant Art account. I waited 3 weeks for the response that they didnt have the time and suggested other people. I am not saying AI should replace that bloke, and it hasnt he now has a steady high paying gig, but the time for me to go from brainfart to execution has drastically decreased. The creative input I have in the process hasn't changed. Its all critique and develop right. Heck most tools let me highlight the problem and rework just that part of the image. Ultimately I enjoy it as creativity. Even if people look down their nose at it, its working the same muscles just faster.
- bugglebeetle 2y ago
  > Even if people look down their nose at it, its working the same muscles just faster. Unfortunately, this isn’t true. It’s just bathing in the median of others people work, at best akin to playing video games (vs making them). There’s no shame in it, I love playing games too, but if you ever want to rise to the level of independent creative expression, you’ll have to give up these crutches, confront your own limitations, and risk failure to overcome them. No challenge, no change.
  - protocolture 2y ago
    Man I know of a "learn to write" strategy where you get a pen, and literally word for word copy the author you are trying to emulate. Just completely reproduce their content, over and over until you "master" their "voice". Artists copy famous paintings for the same reason. Its stupid to presume that no artist ever "bathed" in the the median of other peoples work before 2021.
    - bugglebeetle 2y ago
      Yes, but it’s the act of doing the actual copying that teaches you how precisely to recreate, and more importantly, to question and critically engage with the choices and thought that went into the work, such that you develop those muscles yourselves. When a machine does all of that for you, you’ve missed the entire point of the exercise, which isn’t to copy or emulate, but to learn how to do the same things independently in doing so.

SubiculumCode 2y ago

Like robbing a bank gives increased access to cash? But it's all to gue in cheek, cuz I use Claude for writing python all the time.

dragonwriter 2y ago

> This is so shortsighted. It would only be shortsighted if it was some kind of enforceable-in-the-future commitment. As it is, it is an excellent short-term way to grab mindshare with a sizable chunk of the target market by what amounts to political signalling that costs nothing, either in current resources or in foreclosing future options.

xeyownt 2y ago

Fully agree. Generative AI can be a great tool, not only to boost creativity or inspiration but also to produce faster and better documents (eg. presentation, etc). It can be very helpful in education too.