4 ms·

Peopleandtech.com? If they are celebrating awesomeness?

by timc3 14y ago

gilrain 14y ago
That'd be cool too, but this site is probably trying, at least partially, to encourage women and girls who may aspire to enter a tech field but are discouraged by being unaware of the many admirable women who have succeeded against the odds before them. In a perfect world, peopleandtech.com would be all that's required, but unfortunately we're not quite there yet.
- mibbitier 14y ago
  > In a perfect world, peopleandtech.com would be all that's required, but unfortunately we're not quite there yet. At the risk of being controversial, we will never be there, and nor should we desire to be. Women like different things to men. We're hard wired to have different tastes, desires, strengths and weaknesses.
  - gilrain 14y ago
    Even with that viewpoint, you could see this site as a positive and necessary thing. There really are girls who are deeply interested in STEM fields, but are discouraged by the apparent lack of female role models. In your view, they are biological outliers, I suppose... but surely they still deserve to have potential heroes highlighted for them? After all, I assume you don't believe that the women who are successful and passionate about STEM fields are fighting their every instinct, right? So, even if you think they are biologically less likely interests for a woman, it'd be good to encourage the ones who are interested that they can be successes.
    - mibbitier 14y ago
      I'm not convinced. If you need a role model (Of the same sex) to do something, you probably don't 'love' it enough or find it intellectually stimulating enough to do it for yourself. Personally, I think this just throws up an issue where there is none. Any woman can get into tech, learn technology, setup websites, make apps, do a startup etc etc. I'm not really sure what barriers there are for anyone, apart from the barriers they impose on themselves. Also I'm not a fan of sexism even when it's "reverse" - this website is "women only". It'd be much better to just share stories from everyone... Just my 2c.
      - gms7777 14y ago
        The key with finding a role model that inspires you is often times finding someone you can relate to. I don't think its an exaggeration that in the STEM fields, its much easier to find examples of male role models than female ones. Which is fine seeing as there are a lot more males in the fields. But I don't think its an issue highlighting some women, so young females have someone to look up to when they run into gender issues in their own careers. As a woman in high school and college in the stem fields (computer science, physics and biochem), while I can't point to any example of explicit sexism I faced, there was definitely this feeling of a "boy's club" at times, and at least personally, there was times I felt excluded and looked down upon by some individuals within the field. And even from individuals outside the field there was times that I got this feeling that people thought it was "weird" that I liked this stuff. Don't get me wrong, I loved it wholeheartedly, never once did I consider switching to something more "feminine". That doesn't mean that it didn't get me down at times. I had the benefit of having some strong female professors, who definitely inspired me.
        mibbitier 14y ago
        > "The key with finding a role model that inspires you"... I'm still not sure why anyone feels they need a role model. IMHO we should be teaching our kids to be confident about themselves, and trying what they want to try. If they're confident about exploring the world themselves, then role models probably matter far less. My personal experience was that I found out about computers, saw they could do cool stuff, and wanted to play with them. "Role models" have never been part of the equation for me. Perhaps it's more necessary for Women to have role models, as they're more 'social' and communicate far more than men? Just anecdotally, isn't the biochem industry pretty even, if not slightly female dominated?
        gms7777 14y ago
        In general, yes. I was more involved in computational biochem and high performance computing which isn't as much. I agree with you that its about confidence. If you were probably never discouraged by anyone about computing and tech because of some facet of who you are, or always had to confidence to let that stuff go even if you were, power to you. I don't think many of us are quite as strong as that. That's the idea behind presenting positive role models that people can relate to: even when other things are working against you, there is someone you can look up to and go "See, he/she was just like me, and look what they've done now". Its about boosting their confidence (not the only way, mind you). Its not even about that idea of a stereotypical "role model". If someone asked me in high school or college who my female role-models were, I wouldn't have been able to say. Its more that repeatedly seeing examples of people like you who have "succeeded" hammers in the idea that you could do it too. And just personally, I find the comment about being more "social" and "communicating far more than men" entertaining. It may be true in the general case, but I'm definitely the quiet one, out of my team, otherwise composed entirely of males :)
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- timc3 14y ago
  I agree, I think it is positive to have good role models for everyone to aspire to.
roguecoder 14y ago
Almost every "peopleandtech.com" blog ends up being "men come talk about tech and very very occasionally we get a woman on to talk about women in tech." Plus, there are lots of those around. Why would we need one more?
- timc3 14y ago
  Well, granted there is not enough women talking, but I don't want to hear about women talking about women in tech. I want to hear different the different perspectives of people in tech talking about whatever which could very well be a female perspective.
  - hythloday 14y ago
    I don't want to hear about women talking about women in tech Is there a reason why you think that your desires are generally held, or why they're particularly important to the creators of the site? I'm assuming by your username that you're a man and the site isn't aimed at men who don't want to hear women talking about women in tech. (I could be wrong on either or both assumptions, of course.)
  - cassiemc 14y ago
    Thankfully there will be men talking about women in tech too, since some of our interviewers are male. :)
aristus 14y ago
Because of my name I get occasional contacts from journalists who write for magazines with names like "Latino Business" and "Technology California Latino". At first I felt the same as you, but one of the journalists explained it to me quite well: The point is not to mindlessly cheerlead because a person has some attribute, whether it's two X chromosomes, or a last name ending in a vowel, etc. The point is to aggregate the accomplishments of people with that attribute, so they don't always feel so damned alone. My wife was working at a large tech company on an automated translation system. She needed some more native Spanish speakers to help vet the output. The call went out to the regular employees, thousands of people, and she got nothing. Hindi, Chinese, OK. But no Spanish. She ended up going down to the cafeteria (!) and asking the workers there to help out. Maybe, someday, a woman programmer will be as unremarkable as a woman lawyer. Until then, well, keep remarking on it.
- timc3 14y ago
  I understand and I feel that its such a pity really, as it should be a level playing field
- juliehache 14y ago
  "The point is not to mindlessly cheerlead because a person has some attribute, whether it's two X chromosomes, or a last name ending in a vowel, etc." Well said! Every time I show up at a tech event and someone shouts "Yay! There's a girl here!", it just makes me want to leave.
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    Every time I show up at a tech event and someone shouts "Yay! There's a girl here!", it just makes me want to leave. That's good to know. I'll stop doing that. Sorry.
    - ClHans 14y ago
      I'd upvote you a thousand times if I could. You've just modeled the kind of humility and maturity that can actually make the world a better place. Thank you for this..it hasn't gone unnoticed.

Peopleandtech.com? If they are celebrating awesomeness?

by timc3 14y ago

Peopleandtech.com? If they are celebrating awesomeness?

That'd be cool too, but this site is probably trying, at least partially, to encourage women and girls who may aspire to enter a tech field but are discouraged by being unaware of the many admirable women who have succeeded against the odds before them. In a perfect world, peopleandtech.com would be all that's required, but unfortunately we're not quite there yet.

mibbitier 14y ago
> In a perfect world, peopleandtech.com would be all that's required, but unfortunately we're not quite there yet. At the risk of being controversial, we will never be there, and nor should we desire to be. Women like different things to men. We're hard wired to have different tastes, desires, strengths and weaknesses.
- gilrain 14y ago
  Even with that viewpoint, you could see this site as a positive and necessary thing. There really are girls who are deeply interested in STEM fields, but are discouraged by the apparent lack of female role models. In your view, they are biological outliers, I suppose... but surely they still deserve to have potential heroes highlighted for them? After all, I assume you don't believe that the women who are successful and passionate about STEM fields are fighting their every instinct, right? So, even if you think they are biologically less likely interests for a woman, it'd be good to encourage the ones who are interested that they can be successes.
  - mibbitier 14y ago
    I'm not convinced. If you need a role model (Of the same sex) to do something, you probably don't 'love' it enough or find it intellectually stimulating enough to do it for yourself. Personally, I think this just throws up an issue where there is none. Any woman can get into tech, learn technology, setup websites, make apps, do a startup etc etc. I'm not really sure what barriers there are for anyone, apart from the barriers they impose on themselves. Also I'm not a fan of sexism even when it's "reverse" - this website is "women only". It'd be much better to just share stories from everyone... Just my 2c.
    - gms7777 14y ago
      The key with finding a role model that inspires you is often times finding someone you can relate to. I don't think its an exaggeration that in the STEM fields, its much easier to find examples of male role models than female ones. Which is fine seeing as there are a lot more males in the fields. But I don't think its an issue highlighting some women, so young females have someone to look up to when they run into gender issues in their own careers. As a woman in high school and college in the stem fields (computer science, physics and biochem), while I can't point to any example of explicit sexism I faced, there was definitely this feeling of a "boy's club" at times, and at least personally, there was times I felt excluded and looked down upon by some individuals within the field. And even from individuals outside the field there was times that I got this feeling that people thought it was "weird" that I liked this stuff. Don't get me wrong, I loved it wholeheartedly, never once did I consider switching to something more "feminine". That doesn't mean that it didn't get me down at times. I had the benefit of having some strong female professors, who definitely inspired me.
      - mibbitier 14y ago
        > "The key with finding a role model that inspires you"... I'm still not sure why anyone feels they need a role model. IMHO we should be teaching our kids to be confident about themselves, and trying what they want to try. If they're confident about exploring the world themselves, then role models probably matter far less. My personal experience was that I found out about computers, saw they could do cool stuff, and wanted to play with them. "Role models" have never been part of the equation for me. Perhaps it's more necessary for Women to have role models, as they're more 'social' and communicate far more than men? Just anecdotally, isn't the biochem industry pretty even, if not slightly female dominated?
        gms7777 14y ago
        In general, yes. I was more involved in computational biochem and high performance computing which isn't as much. I agree with you that its about confidence. If you were probably never discouraged by anyone about computing and tech because of some facet of who you are, or always had to confidence to let that stuff go even if you were, power to you. I don't think many of us are quite as strong as that. That's the idea behind presenting positive role models that people can relate to: even when other things are working against you, there is someone you can look up to and go "See, he/she was just like me, and look what they've done now". Its about boosting their confidence (not the only way, mind you). Its not even about that idea of a stereotypical "role model". If someone asked me in high school or college who my female role-models were, I wouldn't have been able to say. Its more that repeatedly seeing examples of people like you who have "succeeded" hammers in the idea that you could do it too. And just personally, I find the comment about being more "social" and "communicating far more than men" entertaining. It may be true in the general case, but I'm definitely the quiet one, out of my team, otherwise composed entirely of males :)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
timc3 14y ago
I agree, I think it is positive to have good role models for everyone to aspire to.

roguecoder 14y ago

Almost every "peopleandtech.com" blog ends up being "men come talk about tech and very very occasionally we get a woman on to talk about women in tech." Plus, there are lots of those around. Why would we need one more?

timc3 14y ago
Well, granted there is not enough women talking, but I don't want to hear about women talking about women in tech. I want to hear different the different perspectives of people in tech talking about whatever which could very well be a female perspective.
- hythloday 14y ago
  I don't want to hear about women talking about women in tech Is there a reason why you think that your desires are generally held, or why they're particularly important to the creators of the site? I'm assuming by your username that you're a man and the site isn't aimed at men who don't want to hear women talking about women in tech. (I could be wrong on either or both assumptions, of course.)
- cassiemc 14y ago
  Thankfully there will be men talking about women in tech too, since some of our interviewers are male. :)

aristus 14y ago

Because of my name I get occasional contacts from journalists who write for magazines with names like "Latino Business" and "Technology California Latino". At first I felt the same as you, but one of the journalists explained it to me quite well: The point is not to mindlessly cheerlead because a person has some attribute, whether it's two X chromosomes, or a last name ending in a vowel, etc. The point is to aggregate the accomplishments of people with that attribute, so they don't always feel so damned alone. My wife was working at a large tech company on an automated translation system. She needed some more native Spanish speakers to help vet the output. The call went out to the regular employees, thousands of people, and she got nothing. Hindi, Chinese, OK. But no Spanish. She ended up going down to the cafeteria (!) and asking the workers there to help out. Maybe, someday, a woman programmer will be as unremarkable as a woman lawyer. Until then, well, keep remarking on it.

timc3 14y ago
I understand and I feel that its such a pity really, as it should be a level playing field
juliehache 14y ago
"The point is not to mindlessly cheerlead because a person has some attribute, whether it's two X chromosomes, or a last name ending in a vowel, etc." Well said! Every time I show up at a tech event and someone shouts "Yay! There's a girl here!", it just makes me want to leave.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  Every time I show up at a tech event and someone shouts "Yay! There's a girl here!", it just makes me want to leave. That's good to know. I'll stop doing that. Sorry.
  - ClHans 14y ago
    I'd upvote you a thousand times if I could. You've just modeled the kind of humility and maturity that can actually make the world a better place. Thank you for this..it hasn't gone unnoticed.