5 ms·

This is utterly, utterly horrifying. Every time you start innovating, problems will happen. But you can’t quit. What they did was legendary and right. They ju

by h_tbob 2y ago

This is utterly, utterly horrifying. Every time you start innovating, problems will happen. But you can’t quit. What they did was legendary and right. They just need to tweak the formula a little bit, not go back to the broken, heartless criminalization. We don’t have the right to tell people if they can’t do drugs. It’s a crime without a victim. I’ve never done drugs, but I would give my life to see this horrible behavior of “righteous” imprisoning people without just cause. Good job Portland for trying. Figure out the mistakes made, and try again, but this time better!

mgarfias 2y ago
It’s all fun and games until you have to dodge the fent zombies walking to the office.
- kibwen 2y ago
  Where are those fent zombies going to go instead?
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Prison (3 strikes type laws) or poorer areas that police herd them to.
  - PKop 2y ago
    Away from normal productive people by any means necessary. Who cares about them, I care about the normal people being harassed and having their quality of life go down. People like you are what have made cities a mess and unlivable.
anon291 2y ago
Do you even live here? It's not a victimless crime. Literally the entire city was a victim. If you want to do drugs, you should have to prove you have sufficient acreage to not be a public nuisance.
- CodeWriter23 2y ago
  I agree with the principle of what you’re saying, do drugs but only if you can contain yourself away from society. The problem with that idea is it’s only a matter of when the dope fiend sells their acreage for more supply.
  - anon291 2y ago
    That's what police and nails are for. We just need to be comfortable incarcerating people who commit crimes. I cannot understand why this is such a controversial take in Oregon. Three years ago with measure 110 on the ballot, I made the same points I make today with the same people. Back then I was called a radical and today I'm called normal. People need to grow up. Just because a Republican says something somewhere does not mean you need to believe the exact opposite. The truth is that measure 110 is the result of an overly reactionary democrat base that lives on social media and basically became pro drug the moment Trump said something about jail during the Floyd riots.
    - h_tbob 2y ago
      All right man let me tell u something. When I was playing GT 7 (racing) on a simulator, I used to either go hard gas, or hard break. It’s like a baby. Either they hold something with 100% strength or not at all. As you grow older, or better at racing, you learn to apply the right pressure to the gas and brake. Very rarely full on. The same goes for life. Your sort of “grabbing” with full strength. Instead, I suggest a more nuanced approach. When we are young we just go on or off. But in the area of dealing with “bad” people (we don’t know if they are or not), it’s best to use as little force as possible because you can really hurt people and make life worse. You also get a worse result because police are expensive. More importantly, each of these people is on drugs because they are in pain. When u hurt them and ignore them, your cutting off an important sense in our communities that’s telling us something is wrong. It’s hard for us to know because we adapted. But for them, they may be more sensitive and can’t handle the suffering so they took drugs. Society has so many issues we don’t even know. We need to ask God or whoever for wisdom to understand the issue. But going full “brake” when these guys are puffing drugs is overkill and it’s not as effective.
hereme888 2y ago
It's called civilization because society agreed to live by a set of rules for the benefit of all. So, yes, it has the right to tell people if they can't do drugs, if they vote on it. If those people don't like it, they can go live in a different civilization, or in an uncivilized place.
- ghssds 2y ago
  > If those people don't like it, they can go live in a different civilization, or in an uncivilized place. The former don't want me and the later did not exist for the past few centuries.
  - hereme888 2y ago
    Irrelevant. Society decides what it wants.
CodeWriter23 2y ago
You sound exactly like a drug addict rationalizing their using. After 28 years in recovery, I’ve heard probably every single variation on that theme.
Incipient 2y ago
>We don’t have the right to tell people if they can’t do drugs. It’s a crime without a victim. I don't know about others, but I see points like this and it fairly comprehensively invalidates any other points an entity/organisation/etc makes. Society absolutely can tell people what what's acceptable and what's not. That's almost the definition of a society. Also it's very much not victimless. Look at the families and especially kids of addicts. The drain on a govts resources (policing/healthcare). On others in society too (drug related violence, car accidents, etc). Different drugs should be treated differently (weed vs meth, etc) I do believe.
EasyMark 2y ago
There are many victims of addiction besides the OG. Children, relatives who try to help them, tax payers who pay for the fallout, emergency rooms, etc. What we don’t have is a sane treatment facilities. You can’t punish people for this, it won’t fix many of them. Letting them surround public parks and harass passers by isn’t a solution either. We have to put research and manpower into treating the source, the addiction and circumstances that got them there.

by h_tbob 2y ago

mgarfias 2y ago

It’s all fun and games until you have to dodge the fent zombies walking to the office.

kibwen 2y ago
Where are those fent zombies going to go instead?
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Prison (3 strikes type laws) or poorer areas that police herd them to.
- PKop 2y ago
  Away from normal productive people by any means necessary. Who cares about them, I care about the normal people being harassed and having their quality of life go down. People like you are what have made cities a mess and unlivable.

anon291 2y ago

Do you even live here? It's not a victimless crime. Literally the entire city was a victim. If you want to do drugs, you should have to prove you have sufficient acreage to not be a public nuisance.

CodeWriter23 2y ago
I agree with the principle of what you’re saying, do drugs but only if you can contain yourself away from society. The problem with that idea is it’s only a matter of when the dope fiend sells their acreage for more supply.
- anon291 2y ago
  That's what police and nails are for. We just need to be comfortable incarcerating people who commit crimes. I cannot understand why this is such a controversial take in Oregon. Three years ago with measure 110 on the ballot, I made the same points I make today with the same people. Back then I was called a radical and today I'm called normal. People need to grow up. Just because a Republican says something somewhere does not mean you need to believe the exact opposite. The truth is that measure 110 is the result of an overly reactionary democrat base that lives on social media and basically became pro drug the moment Trump said something about jail during the Floyd riots.
  - h_tbob 2y ago
    All right man let me tell u something. When I was playing GT 7 (racing) on a simulator, I used to either go hard gas, or hard break. It’s like a baby. Either they hold something with 100% strength or not at all. As you grow older, or better at racing, you learn to apply the right pressure to the gas and brake. Very rarely full on. The same goes for life. Your sort of “grabbing” with full strength. Instead, I suggest a more nuanced approach. When we are young we just go on or off. But in the area of dealing with “bad” people (we don’t know if they are or not), it’s best to use as little force as possible because you can really hurt people and make life worse. You also get a worse result because police are expensive. More importantly, each of these people is on drugs because they are in pain. When u hurt them and ignore them, your cutting off an important sense in our communities that’s telling us something is wrong. It’s hard for us to know because we adapted. But for them, they may be more sensitive and can’t handle the suffering so they took drugs. Society has so many issues we don’t even know. We need to ask God or whoever for wisdom to understand the issue. But going full “brake” when these guys are puffing drugs is overkill and it’s not as effective.

hereme888 2y ago

It's called civilization because society agreed to live by a set of rules for the benefit of all. So, yes, it has the right to tell people if they can't do drugs, if they vote on it. If those people don't like it, they can go live in a different civilization, or in an uncivilized place.

ghssds 2y ago
> If those people don't like it, they can go live in a different civilization, or in an uncivilized place. The former don't want me and the later did not exist for the past few centuries.
- hereme888 2y ago
  Irrelevant. Society decides what it wants.

CodeWriter23 2y ago

You sound exactly like a drug addict rationalizing their using. After 28 years in recovery, I’ve heard probably every single variation on that theme.

Incipient 2y ago

>We don’t have the right to tell people if they can’t do drugs. It’s a crime without a victim. I don't know about others, but I see points like this and it fairly comprehensively invalidates any other points an entity/organisation/etc makes. Society absolutely can tell people what what's acceptable and what's not. That's almost the definition of a society. Also it's very much not victimless. Look at the families and especially kids of addicts. The drain on a govts resources (policing/healthcare). On others in society too (drug related violence, car accidents, etc). Different drugs should be treated differently (weed vs meth, etc) I do believe.

EasyMark 2y ago

There are many victims of addiction besides the OG. Children, relatives who try to help them, tax payers who pay for the fallout, emergency rooms, etc. What we don’t have is a sane treatment facilities. You can’t punish people for this, it won’t fix many of them. Letting them surround public parks and harass passers by isn’t a solution either. We have to put research and manpower into treating the source, the addiction and circumstances that got them there.