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This is mildly terrifying. Imagine a drug that penetrates the blood-brain barrier and inhibits the interaction of these two proteins. Administered over a long

This is mildly terrifying. Imagine a drug that penetrates the blood-brain barrier and inhibits the interaction of these two proteins. Administered over a long enough period of time, could it erase your memories... effectively, erasing you? Imagine such a thing being used maliciously, by governments against their critics, or as a covert weapon.

PaulKeeble 2y ago
My first thought is someone is going to do these experiments, probably on a prisoner. Then my second thought was death row prisoners being given the choice of a memory wipe or death as some sort of attempt at rehabilitation. I can't yet see half the ways this could go horribly for humanity. On the other hand knowing how this works we might be able to boost the process and make people super fast learners, that could be really cool.
- crooked-v 2y ago
  That kind of thing is what gets you a society with incentives to produce more death-row convictions.
- akira2501 2y ago
  > My first thought is someone is going to do these experiments, probably on a prisoner. In the animal model, they surgically altered the animals to have an injection cannula placed in their skulls, it's obviously hard to target, so you just install it and run the experiment, then after the experiment, you kill and necropsy the animal to see if it was in the right place after all. If it was you can keep those results, if it wasn't, you throw those results away. Meanwhile the test is putting them on a rotating platform and shocking their feet on certain platform areas. Then waiting for them to avoid it habitually. Then you inject them. Then you see if they still avoid it. These guys basically know next to nothing about how memories are formed at this point. Their test is so amazingly cruel while being particularly narrow that you can't actually divine anything useful from it. Except maybe more funding to keep shooting in the dark at these animals expense.
  - Modified3019 2y ago
    Reminds me of the “forced swim test” (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4401172/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4401172/) being used as a proxy for depressive behavior.
- AlexDragusin 2y ago
  Try this episode of The Outer Limits https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667983/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667983/ It explores this theme and it's rather interesting conclusion.
mewpmewp2 2y ago
Yes, although, you could just poison and kill anyone as easily already now, so I'm not sure if it's exactly more terrifying or not.
- grugagag 2y ago
  Possibly more humiliating to see an opponent mind be completely wiped out, possibly living the rest of their lives as a vegetable and to need the care of someone. When one is killed for their ideas they become a martyr of sorts.
  - smith7018 2y ago
    It is already much easier to turn someone into a vegetable or to mentally incapacitate people
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    I think if you want terrifying, look for the "Devil's Breath" or Scopolamine. This has been actively used by robbers and can ruin a life forever.
    - fn-mote 2y ago
      I had (have) a hard time understanding this comment until I got to the "Use in Crime" section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine#Use_in_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine#Use_in_crime The estimate of 50k criminal cases involving scopolamine in Columbia makes it sound mainstream. Nevertheless: > [...] on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines.
      - mewpmewp2 2y ago
        I remember seeing a Vice documentary on this drug, but Googling now it seems a lot of doubts about whether this drug has effects like claimed. Well I don't know. But having tried drugs like Ambien which is a prescribed sleep medicine and it kind of completely removing all filters far, far more than alcohol would when not going to sleep immediately after and then not remembering anything the next day at all I found it plausible for there to exist really scary drugs like that, which would congitively affect you and your personality.
wtetzner 2y ago
I wonder if there's something in our food and/or environment that effectively does that over long periods of time, ultimately causing some forms of dementia?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dv_dt 2y ago
On the other hand something like that might also have legitimate medical uses with ptsd treatments.
- TSP00N3 2y ago
  Maybe you are thinking of Homecoming. The podcast and tv series around this general plot: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homecoming_(TV_series) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homecoming_(TV_series)
  - dv_dt 2y ago
    It was an idea before Homecoming, and even before this 2015 paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547388/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547388/ But that aspect of Homecoming scripts were probably inspired by the general discussion of possible treatments over the years. PTSD applies to more than just veterans. They're one of the most prominent discussed class of sufferers of PTSD, but there are victims of crimes, of simply accidents, or of war or terrorism that can also suffer PTSD.
mdhb 2y ago
[flagged]
thunkle 2y ago
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
justinclift 2y ago
Wonder if something like Dementia might turn out to be something going wrong with this?

PaulKeeble 2y ago

My first thought is someone is going to do these experiments, probably on a prisoner. Then my second thought was death row prisoners being given the choice of a memory wipe or death as some sort of attempt at rehabilitation. I can't yet see half the ways this could go horribly for humanity. On the other hand knowing how this works we might be able to boost the process and make people super fast learners, that could be really cool.

crooked-v 2y ago
That kind of thing is what gets you a society with incentives to produce more death-row convictions.
akira2501 2y ago
> My first thought is someone is going to do these experiments, probably on a prisoner. In the animal model, they surgically altered the animals to have an injection cannula placed in their skulls, it's obviously hard to target, so you just install it and run the experiment, then after the experiment, you kill and necropsy the animal to see if it was in the right place after all. If it was you can keep those results, if it wasn't, you throw those results away. Meanwhile the test is putting them on a rotating platform and shocking their feet on certain platform areas. Then waiting for them to avoid it habitually. Then you inject them. Then you see if they still avoid it. These guys basically know next to nothing about how memories are formed at this point. Their test is so amazingly cruel while being particularly narrow that you can't actually divine anything useful from it. Except maybe more funding to keep shooting in the dark at these animals expense.
- Modified3019 2y ago
  Reminds me of the “forced swim test” (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4401172/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4401172/) being used as a proxy for depressive behavior.
AlexDragusin 2y ago
Try this episode of The Outer Limits https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667983/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667983/ It explores this theme and it's rather interesting conclusion.

mewpmewp2 2y ago

Yes, although, you could just poison and kill anyone as easily already now, so I'm not sure if it's exactly more terrifying or not.

grugagag 2y ago
Possibly more humiliating to see an opponent mind be completely wiped out, possibly living the rest of their lives as a vegetable and to need the care of someone. When one is killed for their ideas they become a martyr of sorts.
- smith7018 2y ago
  It is already much easier to turn someone into a vegetable or to mentally incapacitate people
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  I think if you want terrifying, look for the "Devil's Breath" or Scopolamine. This has been actively used by robbers and can ruin a life forever.
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    I had (have) a hard time understanding this comment until I got to the "Use in Crime" section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine#Use_in_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine#Use_in_crime The estimate of 50k criminal cases involving scopolamine in Columbia makes it sound mainstream. Nevertheless: > [...] on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines.
    - mewpmewp2 2y ago
      I remember seeing a Vice documentary on this drug, but Googling now it seems a lot of doubts about whether this drug has effects like claimed. Well I don't know. But having tried drugs like Ambien which is a prescribed sleep medicine and it kind of completely removing all filters far, far more than alcohol would when not going to sleep immediately after and then not remembering anything the next day at all I found it plausible for there to exist really scary drugs like that, which would congitively affect you and your personality.

wtetzner 2y ago

I wonder if there's something in our food and/or environment that effectively does that over long periods of time, ultimately causing some forms of dementia?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dv_dt 2y ago

On the other hand something like that might also have legitimate medical uses with ptsd treatments.

TSP00N3 2y ago
Maybe you are thinking of Homecoming. The podcast and tv series around this general plot: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homecoming_(TV_series) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homecoming_(TV_series)
- dv_dt 2y ago
  It was an idea before Homecoming, and even before this 2015 paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547388/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547388/ But that aspect of Homecoming scripts were probably inspired by the general discussion of possible treatments over the years. PTSD applies to more than just veterans. They're one of the most prominent discussed class of sufferers of PTSD, but there are victims of crimes, of simply accidents, or of war or terrorism that can also suffer PTSD.

mdhb 2y ago

[flagged]

thunkle 2y ago

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

justinclift 2y ago

Wonder if something like Dementia might turn out to be something going wrong with this?