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They drive with a discipline / care that Americans refuse to even consider. Perhaps Americans should.

by creer 2y ago

l5870uoo9y 2y ago
I agree they have a considerate and disciplined driving culture, but on the other hand parts of the autobahn are without any speed limitations which increase accidents ("Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger").
AstralJaeger 2y ago
As someone who regularly drives on German highways, including the Autobahn, I may ad my two cents. While German drivers are often praised for their discipline, the reality I've observed, especially in unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn, can be quite different. Many drivers there seem to focus primarily on their perceived right to drive as fast as they want, often creating dangerous situations for others who may be able to or want to drive as fast and thus often not have time to react. I've witnessed numerous close calls and risky maneuvers that don't align with the idealized view of German driving discipline. That said, the significant difference in road fatality rates between Germany and the US suggests there are indeed factors contributing to safer roads in Germany. However, from my experience, it's not simply due to more careful drivers across the board. Other elements like road design, vehicle safety standards, strict enforcement of traffic laws, and comprehensive driver education systems likely play crucial roles, see the pathway to a german drivers license which includes about 9 hours of practice training with a driving instructor. Rather than looking abroad for examples of driver behavior, it might be more productive for the US to focus on improving road safety through comprehensive measures. This could include enhancing driver education, implementing stricter enforcement of existing traffic laws, and investing in safer road infrastructure. The goal should be to create a system that encourages and facilitates safer driving for everyone, regardless of individual driver attitudes. While there's certainly room for improvement in American driving habits, the solution likely lies in systemic changes rather than simply emulating perceived behaviors from other countries.
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  > the reality I've observed, especially in unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn, can be quite different. My experience is that it depends on where in Germany you are. I drove from France to Norway this week so I went through northern Germany and the autobahn was great, where it wasn't restricted because of the more or less permanent roadworks that is. I drive on Tesla Autopilot when I can which has a maximum speed of 150 kph and only once in the 600 km from Venlo to Flensburg did I notice someone get too close behind me even though many were travelling considerably faster. It's a different story further south around Munich for instance. I agree though that road safety in Europe has a lot to do with road design, vehicle standards, maintenance, driver education, etc.
  - AstralJaeger 2y ago
    I fully agree on that, I'm mostly travelling through the south of germany, think Salzburg to Kufstein, and that route is terrible, including the pavement.
- dham 2y ago
  If you drove 150 MPH on an American road you would end up 100 yards into the woods flipping over 90 times, after hitting 1 of 65 potholes that are 4 feet deep on the interstate.
  - creer 2y ago
    That would be a poor excuse for just a few cars driving scattered across 6 lanes to make sure to block the whole thing. It's not always about driving much faster.
- abenga 2y ago
  > comprehensive driver education systems What are they learning, other than (at least partly) discipline and ways to be safer?
  - creer 2y ago
Xenoamorphous 2y ago
It’s funny, because my very anecdotal experience is very different. I’ve been to the US and Germany only once. In Berlin I didn’t drive, but saw the weirdest thing multiple times: when the traffic lights turned green sometimes the drivers of the cars up front would just go flat out, tyre screching and all, only to stop at the next traffic light 100 meters away. Really odd. On the other hand I had to drive many kilometers (sorry, miles) in the US and thought everyone was well behaved, didn’t experience any tailgating, reckless driving etc.
- therealdrag0 2y ago
  US varies widely. California drivers are pretty wild. A 65 mph highway will have half the cars going 80, many tailgating. Many don’t let you merge if you use blinker. Michigan can be similarly fast, but less aggressive. PNW is much more reasonable/safe.
thallium205 2y ago
Germany is barely the size of New Mexico. Talk about an apples to orange comparison… Broken down by state, I’m sure there are states that are safer than Germany.
- creer 2y ago
  Classic American answer to everything. What does size have to do with anything? Besides well understood economies of scale which clearly would favor the US?
  - thallium205 2y ago
    Because when you live in a country as large as the United States, you are on the road a lot more so your chances of dying on the road go up. The quoted statistic is not per unit of distance it’s just per 100,000 people so it’s biased towards places that are smaller.
- creer 2y ago
  > Broken down by state, I’m sure there are states that are safer than Germany Based on fatalities per 100k persons (not a great statistic but the one quoted in this thread), and 2022 data, then nope. Every single state is worse than Germany. Even District of Columbia - basically a city with much less reason to drive - manages a worse score than Germany as a whole. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...
  - thallium205 2y ago
    Pretty ridiculous to not measure deaths per some unit of distance traveled.
    - bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
      Eh, you really want per unit of economic productivity or similar, since driving is not in and of itself productive. For instance, you could get the numbers to look better simply by having people circle the block in their neighborhood (presumably a very safe form of driving).

They drive with a discipline / care that Americans refuse to even consider. Perhaps Americans should.

by creer 2y ago

They drive with a discipline / care that Americans refuse to even consider. Perhaps Americans should.

I agree they have a considerate and disciplined driving culture, but on the other hand parts of the autobahn are without any speed limitations which increase accidents ("Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger").

AstralJaeger 2y ago

As someone who regularly drives on German highways, including the Autobahn, I may ad my two cents. While German drivers are often praised for their discipline, the reality I've observed, especially in unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn, can be quite different. Many drivers there seem to focus primarily on their perceived right to drive as fast as they want, often creating dangerous situations for others who may be able to or want to drive as fast and thus often not have time to react. I've witnessed numerous close calls and risky maneuvers that don't align with the idealized view of German driving discipline. That said, the significant difference in road fatality rates between Germany and the US suggests there are indeed factors contributing to safer roads in Germany. However, from my experience, it's not simply due to more careful drivers across the board. Other elements like road design, vehicle safety standards, strict enforcement of traffic laws, and comprehensive driver education systems likely play crucial roles, see the pathway to a german drivers license which includes about 9 hours of practice training with a driving instructor. Rather than looking abroad for examples of driver behavior, it might be more productive for the US to focus on improving road safety through comprehensive measures. This could include enhancing driver education, implementing stricter enforcement of existing traffic laws, and investing in safer road infrastructure. The goal should be to create a system that encourages and facilitates safer driving for everyone, regardless of individual driver attitudes. While there's certainly room for improvement in American driving habits, the solution likely lies in systemic changes rather than simply emulating perceived behaviors from other countries.

kwhitefoot 2y ago
> the reality I've observed, especially in unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn, can be quite different. My experience is that it depends on where in Germany you are. I drove from France to Norway this week so I went through northern Germany and the autobahn was great, where it wasn't restricted because of the more or less permanent roadworks that is. I drive on Tesla Autopilot when I can which has a maximum speed of 150 kph and only once in the 600 km from Venlo to Flensburg did I notice someone get too close behind me even though many were travelling considerably faster. It's a different story further south around Munich for instance. I agree though that road safety in Europe has a lot to do with road design, vehicle standards, maintenance, driver education, etc.
- AstralJaeger 2y ago
  I fully agree on that, I'm mostly travelling through the south of germany, think Salzburg to Kufstein, and that route is terrible, including the pavement.
dham 2y ago
If you drove 150 MPH on an American road you would end up 100 yards into the woods flipping over 90 times, after hitting 1 of 65 potholes that are 4 feet deep on the interstate.
- creer 2y ago
  That would be a poor excuse for just a few cars driving scattered across 6 lanes to make sure to block the whole thing. It's not always about driving much faster.
abenga 2y ago
> comprehensive driver education systems What are they learning, other than (at least partly) discipline and ways to be safer?
- creer 2y ago

Xenoamorphous 2y ago

It’s funny, because my very anecdotal experience is very different. I’ve been to the US and Germany only once. In Berlin I didn’t drive, but saw the weirdest thing multiple times: when the traffic lights turned green sometimes the drivers of the cars up front would just go flat out, tyre screching and all, only to stop at the next traffic light 100 meters away. Really odd. On the other hand I had to drive many kilometers (sorry, miles) in the US and thought everyone was well behaved, didn’t experience any tailgating, reckless driving etc.

therealdrag0 2y ago
US varies widely. California drivers are pretty wild. A 65 mph highway will have half the cars going 80, many tailgating. Many don’t let you merge if you use blinker. Michigan can be similarly fast, but less aggressive. PNW is much more reasonable/safe.

thallium205 2y ago

Germany is barely the size of New Mexico. Talk about an apples to orange comparison… Broken down by state, I’m sure there are states that are safer than Germany.

creer 2y ago
Classic American answer to everything. What does size have to do with anything? Besides well understood economies of scale which clearly would favor the US?
- thallium205 2y ago
  Because when you live in a country as large as the United States, you are on the road a lot more so your chances of dying on the road go up. The quoted statistic is not per unit of distance it’s just per 100,000 people so it’s biased towards places that are smaller.
creer 2y ago
> Broken down by state, I’m sure there are states that are safer than Germany Based on fatalities per 100k persons (not a great statistic but the one quoted in this thread), and 2022 data, then nope. Every single state is worse than Germany. Even District of Columbia - basically a city with much less reason to drive - manages a worse score than Germany as a whole. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...
- thallium205 2y ago
  Pretty ridiculous to not measure deaths per some unit of distance traveled.
  - bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
    Eh, you really want per unit of economic productivity or similar, since driving is not in and of itself productive. For instance, you could get the numbers to look better simply by having people circle the block in their neighborhood (presumably a very safe form of driving).